Pemalite said:
1. AMD is a generation behind nVidia for the most part though.
nVidia will have second generation ray tracing hardware this year, which will likely correspond with a significant increase in compute hardware to tackle the problem and efficiency gains.
Bofferbrauer2 said:
When an XBO game ran in 720p, then the PS4 title generally ran in 900p, not 1080p. After all, 1080p is twice as large as 720p, but the PS4 ain't twice as strong as the XBO.
|
2. 720P vs 900P is a difference of 56.25% which is more than the theoretical "30%" performance difference. (Which is why flops is bullshit.)
Bofferbrauer2 said:
Those 30% more TFlops would get pretty expensive. Just look at the current AMD GPUs: The RX 5500 and RX 5600 are at 4.8 TFlops and 6 TFlops respectively, yet the price difference is over $100. And It's not just the price of the chip: The cooling can be much weaker and smaller and cheaper, and thus also the casing, making the console overall also cheaper to produce.
|
3a. The price isn't in the Teraflops.
50% wider memory bus, requires more PCB layers, more intricate power delivery.
Some variants have 50% more memory as well.
The real cost is in the die size... The RX 5600 is from a die-harvested RX 5700, where-as the RX 5500 is built from it's own smaller, cheaper die that is 58.8% smaller.
So in reality... The RX 5500 should be 50% cheaper than the RX 5600 due to the roughly 50% decrease in all the hardware, but that is generally not the case... Often seeing a 75% price discrepancy between the two parts in Oceania.
Bofferbrauer2 said:
You don't seem to understand what compromises need to be made for a modern console to reach a $300 pricepoint. The big consoles will be sold at a massive loss since they are coming with over 12 TFlops and an 8-core CPU. An RX 5700XT, currently the strongest AMD GPU, clocks in at just 9 TFlops and yet costs about $400, the Ryzen 7 3700X costs about $300. AMD doesn't need the console money nearly as badly anymore as they did for the current gen and thus will also ask higher prices for their hardware.
|
3b. PC costs and Console costs tend to be a little different.
Microsoft and Sony buy in bulk which can be a significant price reduction, plus they get their own contracts done for fabrication.
There is also part consolidation, GPU's on PC's for instance have their own power delivery and RAM, on consoles that is all shared with the other components.
Plus you have the profit margins, AMD tries to retain a 64% or higher profit margin... But that really depends on how performant they are relative to nVidia and what markets they are chasing... AMD's semi-custom division tends to get lump sums with licensing revenue, totally different pricing structure.
And of course you have the die-size vs clock frequency part of the equation, having a smaller chip that can clock higher can mean more Teraflops, but also cheaper than the part it replaces, we saw this often with AMD's evolution of Graphics Core Next where they constantly re-balanced hardware every year.
|
1: Until we know more about RDNA2 and Ampere, I'd rest that case. AMD could be closing the gap with a strong leap, Ampere not turn out as great as expected, and so on...
2: I know, but this was in response to someone claiming that the PS4 was twice as powerful and that the graphical disparity between the consoles were larger than they really are, and just told him that the difference was smaller than he thought.
3a+b: I know, just didn't want to go too much into detail and keep it simple.
Last edited by Bofferbrauer2 - on 13 March 2020
