| Jaicee said: I feel like the people here blaming RoS's failures on TLJ are frankly trying to justify the fact that the actual reason RoS sucks is because it very obviously panders to their demands for this trilogy instead of following through on the direction established in TLJ. #StarWarsFans type people simply don't want to own their own role in ruining this trilogy for most everyone, including me. |
The problem is it panders to them in a completely contrived and rushed ways, while also screaming too little, too late. And there was no direction established by TLJ. It left the Rebels right where they began. Only now some people are dead. There was no cliffhanger to get people excited for the next film. And its answers for the very mysteries that brought people into the theater on opening day were big nothings. Kathleen Kennedy put an internet troll in the director's seat and the film and franchise payed the price for it.
And now you have joined us, not liking this film for the same exact reason you claimed we didn't like TLJ, it didn't pander to our theories or where we wanted the story to go. 
| Fallawful said: I see a lot of people blaming exclusively the Last Jedi for the trilogy not being coherent. I disagree - I think that the Force Awakens led the foundations for bad story-telling, and is at least equally to blame as the Last Jedi for the trilogy not feeling coherent. (This, aside from the fact that the real blame is the lack of planning within Disney in the first place - who does a trilogy without knowing where it's going? Jeez.) Anyway - here's a challenge, if anyone wants to take it up: One of the biggest quoted flaws for the Last Jedi is how they treated Luke's character. My thing is - how was the Last Jedi supposed to treat Luke? The very first scene in the Force Awakens has the main villain looking for Luke, because he's missing and absolutely nobody knows his true location. What kind of excuse is the Last Jedi supposed to come up with to explain Luke's disappearance without Luke looking like a total arse? When the next movie begins, what the hell is Luke supposed to say that still makes him look like a hero? The Last Jedi took some risks and ignored some stuff from the Force Awakens, this is true, but I sincerely also don't think the Force Awakens placed good foundations in the first place. JJ Abrams threw a bunch of stuff in the air in hopes that the next directer would catch it and run with it. It didn't work out. Anyway, I always hoped RoS would connect the trilogy finally, but it didn't, and I left the heater having enjoyed an underwhelming Star Wars movie. |
You are right that the foundation wasn't put down perfectly by a professional. But, it was a competent job and could have been built upon. Instead, Rian Johnson decided to jackhammer the foundation apart, only to put up a straw house in its place. JJ came back and had to put the pieces of the foundation back together and build the walls of the house in a matter of a day, while putting on a solid roof to complete it. That's just not enough time to do that, and, unfortunately, JJ isn't exactly the man for the job.
As for Luke. There are tons of possibilities. He could have been looking for the hiding place of Snoke, who in TFA only appeared via hologram. He could have been continuing his training to better take on this new threat. Hell, you could have it that he has no idea about The Order, and left to find his nephew to bring him back to the Light side. Maybe Ben shut him out from contacting him with the Force and his trying to find a way to break through that. The Order popped up in his absence and shortly after Ben and the other students join them.
But, Rian is an internet troll, so wanted to shit on Luke's character in front of the fans. So, he made him a hermit who hates everything he always loved, and wanted to be left alone to die on the island. Of course, he conveniently forgot one of the biggest parts of the first films in this trilogy. He left a fucking map on how to find him if the Rebels needed him, again.
The movie really should have been called The Last Nothing, because that's what its biggest theme was. You like this character? Well, they are NOTHING like you remember them, and for no good reason. You want a compelling plot that moves the story forward? Well, you get NOTHING but a slow speed chase and a side mission straight out of a Disney channel film. Want to know Rey's lineage so it may explain somewhat about how she is so good with the Force? Well, it's NOTHING, she's a nobody. Want to learn more about the Knights of Ren? Well, they get NOTHING, not even a mention.
Like a said, an internet troll. It's fine to subvert people's expectations IF you lead them down interesting paths they never thought to go. It's not ok to subvert people's expectations just for the sake of doing it because it makes you laugh like a castrated hyena. And the people who praise such a thing are part of the problem that SW finds itself in, now.
| Moren said: I'll be reading your full impressions once I watch the movie at the end of the week. It's a shame though. I enjoyed The Last Jedi for what it was, but they capitulated to loud and angry minorities. |
If by minority you mean 49.99% of the audience, you may be right. Disney knows they fucked up with TLJ. It had some of the worst legs of any of the SW movies. The fans of TLJ that think it was only a minuscule minority that disliked the film are being willfully ignorant. This film was gauranteed to make $1.8B, and may have made more. It made $1.33B. It caused a major backlash and drop in interest for everything SW, i.e. merch and park attendance. Its home movies sales dropped to just 46% those of TFA, after doing 64% of what TFA did at the theater, meaning interest in the film dropped even more. If anything TLJ fans are in the minority.
Disney would have been insane to continue on what little path that TLJ laid out for it. They would have had an even smaller opening than they just had for the retcon mess that is ROS.
Last edited by thismeintiel - on 23 December 2019
