The Stagnant Working Class

[Bofferbrauer2]

Immersiveunreality said:

Bofferbrauer2 said:

That's not a proof, that's an opinion - and a hitpiece.

But if you think governmental involvement is so bad for healthcare, then how come everywhere else in the world where the government handles the healthcare, healthcare is significantly cheaper?

Have a look at this, for instance: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_system#International_comparisons

The US are last by a country mile in every single category. The only category they are leading, is the pricetag - as in, they're by far the most expensive.

Or how about this here:

US citizens have to pay much more for their healthcare even by purchase parity compared every other nation. And the gap just keeps growing.

Healthcare in the US is not working not because of governmental involvement, but because Republicans continually torpedo every resolution and water them down if they can. Their problem right now is that Obamacare is too popular to repeal without murdering the party, so they just leave it as is. But otherwise they certainly would have repealed it already. They cut coverage where they can not because it helps the patients, but the healthcare lobby who pays them millions and rake in billions due to less coverage.

Also, just consider this: If you're an insurer, do you want to pay for a vaccine or prefer not to, as the statistics say the chance that you get that infection are below 1%? Do you want to cover preventive care or look at the statistics, which say that less than 1% get seriously sick? Or do you want to cover those things, but not the possible less than 1% chance of serious illness?

That's how purely private healthcare works: They cut out their costs so much that they also cut down the benefits for most people who can't afford to pay several extras. They cherry-pick what they cover, and on top of that have their own hospitals, so you just can't go to any hospital, either. You have to go to their hospital to get your coverage.

Also, just think about this: If you travel to the US from most European countries, you need to pay for a travel healthcare which covers flight back in case of illness. Because flying you back over the pond on a stretcher in a special plane is much cheaper than the healthcare in the US. And that rule got included by popular demand from frequent US travelers.

Do you take in account that a lot of european citizens firstly take a pretty big cut on their wages for unemployment/retirement and health insurance....and that is not included in that graph or is it?

I mean on top of higher taxes all included i pay more than the highest amount on that graph and i do not have a very high payed job in Europe,some countries here are way more expensive than the US and it does look like you guys have a bit more money on the side on average not to mention that the people i know that worked in the US got payed a decent amount more than they got in this country for doing the same work.

Sacrifices will need to be made to have a decent healthcaresystem for everyone and more cuts on wages might happen,but i do support a good healthcare for the US ofcourse!

It is included in the graph. After all, that's how the numbers come together in Europe. Also, it depends what you understand under big. Unemployment, health insurance and retirement (by far the biggest chunk of the 3) just add up to 9.5% (7.5% retirement, 1.75% health insurance and 0.25% dependency, which is unemployment both because you can't find a job and being unfit to work due to physical or mental illnesses or disabilities) in Luxembourg.

Unless you're earning minimum wage (where you don't pay any taxes at all anymore), you also don't pay that much in taxes, especially when you're in a couple (how much depends on your yearly household income, we got a progressive chart for that: https://impotsdirects.public.lu/dam-assets/fr/baremes/recueil-bareme-01012017.pdf  It's in French and German, but I think the numbers are easily understood. Starts at page 18 Tax class 1 is single, 1a single with child or widow(er), and 2 official couple, married or otherwise legally bound together). And that's all before you start deducting anything from your taxes (like childcare, home improvement costs, education-related expenses, running credits... it's all listed on the pages before the table). So the actual value of your taxes is often about half of what you see in that table.

It should be said however that the employer also has a share to pay on health insurance and dependency (not sure about retirement), so the actual amount is above those 9.5%. On the other hand, employers can deduct much of these costs from the taxes.

May I ask which country you're from?