drkohler said:
I think we should add a few frontloaded expenses that change your rosy view: a) Cost of making prototypes. Given how extremely expensive a large 7nm design is (currently), and assuming Sony actually has some working prototypes of PS5s (i.e. they are not high-specced PCs, we can very roughly add >=500M for developing the SoC (and whatever goes with it, peanuts in comparison to the SoC). b) Every mask failure adds xyM costs to the development cycle. c) Making, say, functional developer units at 25k a piece adds another xyzM to the bill d) Final masks for the PS5, producing an initial run of consoles = 100M e) Actually paying for PS+ (Sony gets a fraction of what you pay with your PS+ subscription, most is for renting hardware/maintaining own hardware and software people) f) Adjust for money you don't actually can invest if you sell consoles at a great loss instead of break-even on it. g) All the stuff I forgot to add to the list (like demo units for shops, etc, new surround heaphones, PSVR2, etc. etc.). The list would probably go to z) |
Yes you are right that I oversimplified. But the only relevant point was showing that selling PS5 at 200 loss today is less troublesome than it was on PS3. With PS3 it meant massive losses overall, but today and with standard pieces it is totally achievable.
spemanig said:
Dude, that's an insanely disingenuous comparison. You're comparing the fringe discounts of a 3 year old model to the one-day-old announcement price of a new digital-only model without discounts. If they were launched at the same time, the implication to be made is that it still would have been $50 less, just like it is now for the undiscounted price. Had this model been 3 years old like the current XBO S, it would likely be just as easy to find at $170. I don't see how PS5 would be any different. |
TO customers what matters is the price they pay and features.
This new model doesn't do anything more than the previous, but do less and for more money, that is a very bad proposition.
Also I'm just showing you that the drive itself is less than 30 USD on the system, so it doesn't really lower the entry price.
CGI-Quality said:
https://www.resetera.com/threads/official-playstation-next-gen-plans-2020-wired-exclusive-article-ray-tracing-bc-ssd-more.111777/page-73#post-19929295 Post #3648 By now, it should be obvious that I don't post rumors out of nowhere. ^_^ |
CGI I would like to see your input on they having 8GB of HBM2 and 16GB of DDR4. How much impact such different type of RAM and their bandwidhts would have on the balancing and use on the system? Could they use it seemless to have the slower RAM working on the parts that need more memory but lower speed and HBM for the more urgent tasks? Or is that a good way to take on the ineficiency of GCN on needing plenty of memory and bandwidth to keep CUs feed? Also if Sony accepted slightly slower multitasking the 8Gb of RAM for the OS could be increased using the other 16Gb for game right, or perhaps OS doesn't change the RAM but the other apps when initializing get some of the gaming RAM, just like on PS4 some apps will put game in suspension and others will have other apps closed before running.
Cerebralbore101 said:
8 GB of RAM for the OS would be a bloated OS. No thanks. Switch's OS is the best OS, because it boots up instantly, just plays games, and only takes up 300 KB of space. |
If it was on my taste the console wouldn't even have OS. I would have all dedicated to gaming and buy another electronic (or use what I already have) for different tasks. But if the 8 GB of OS RAM cost very little on the PS5 budget I'm fine with it.
Pemalite said:
I meant things like the drive configurations and so on that everyone is commenting on without us actually having all the facts.
I am not saying your assertion is either correct or incorrect, merely just asking for evidence.
To be fair, my original assumption was for a device that targeted a $400 USD price point.
Ray Tracing has been possible for years, it really depends how extensive you wish to implement the technology, the more robust your implementation of Ray Tracing is... The more hardware you need to throw at the problem.
Indeed. It is certainly a good thing, competitive pressure from Microsoft has likely assisted to that end... As original Sony was fairly dismissive of the idea of backwards compatibility for one reason or another on the Playstation 4. https://www.extremetech.com/gaming/250579-everybody-always-claims-want-console-backwards-compatibility-doesnt-anybody-use
I concur. GDDR6 seems to be the more economical choice right now. But hey, if it has HBM2... I will be pleasantly surprised.
We have absolutely no idea about the drive configurations. - For all we know it's a chunk of NAND soldered onto the motherboard with a PCI-E 4.0 interconnect that caches a spinning mechanical hard drive... And such an approach would possibly not just cache an internal mechanical hard drive.. But potentially external mechanical drives as well.
Real world performance will be more. The Xbox One X chip isn't using the latest and greatest of Graphics Core Next... So there is efficiency gains to be had with Navi, heck even Vega.
By 2020 7nm should be far more mature than it is currently, so Sony and Microsoft may be willing to invest in larger chips initially.
Not as simple as that I am afraid. The chips themselves have a correlated increase in cost with increases in size.
The thing with using NAND as a high-traffic swap cache is the idea of one write, many reads. Optane is NAND which is optimized for it's task, rather than using commodity chips.
Wut |
Hey I know you and CGI were being conservative and mindfull on your expectations at the console releasing @399 without massive losses, thus I said I was joking on seeing Sony troll both of you.
About the Stadia comparison, HW being more than twice as powerfull because of efficiency I understand, but also on real world we have to consider the internet infrastructure for most customers, and in this scenario I would say I see Stadia performing worse than PS4Pro to most customers.
I made the question to CGI above, but I also would like to see your input on they having 8GB of HBM2 and 16GB of DDR4. How much impact such different type of RAM and their bandwidhts would have on the balancing and use on the system? Could they use it seemless to have the slower RAM working on the parts that need more memory but lower speed and HBM for the more urgent tasks? Or is that a good way to take on the ineficiency of GCN on needing plenty of memory and bandwidth to keep CUs feed? Also if Sony accepted slightly slower multitasking the 8Gb of RAM for the OS could be increased using the other 16Gb for game right, or perhaps OS doesn't change the RAM but the other apps when initializing get some of the gaming RAM, just like on PS4 some apps will put game in suspension and others will have other apps closed before running.
Zoombael said:
You re welcome. I can laugh about the staggering ignorance people like you chose to display. |
Yep, just look on VGC for tracking of the first year of PS3, even at 599 it had plenty of people buying (aligned it never sold less than X360), but certainly the sales potential at launch @399 is different than @599.
duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363
Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"
http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994
Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."
