PS5 Confirmed Backward Compatibility

[DonFerrari]

Pemalite said:

simek said:

PS5 is a dream game machine

Ray tracing for sound and light- confirmed

SSD for no loading times- confirmed

Ryzen 2 8 core- confirmed

BC- confirmed

Custom navi- confimed

It feels like they ticked all the right  boxes. Im waiting for preorders to open. 

For sound? Not so much. We have actually been down this Audio path once before... Aka. Aureal A3D, before Creative bought them up and shuttered them.

Also. Nothing has been confirmed, these are rumors, grain of salt and all of that.

vivster said:
Uhm..... that whole article reads like a marketing fluff piece written by Sony themselves. They're getting really desperate to sell it as something revolutionary when it's a mere simple hardware upgrade. Nothing wrong with a straight upgrade, but I can't take all the marketing bullcrap.

Supercomputer on a chip not happening then?

simek said:

 Better battery i think should be priority. I dont think wireless charging will be any efficent for gaming (too slow), and too expensive aswell.

Fast wireless charging is pretty accessible now, even earphones are coming with the technology these days.

However, I would personally prefer hot-swappable AA batteries personally... But I doubt that will happen, not with a Sony console anyway.

CGI-Quality said:
In this case at least (though I'm sure Xbox will also have it now), I was wrong about Raytracing (though we'd need to see more). Hearing that it'll pack an SSD faster than my PC is capable of is the bananas part! O_O

Well. Nothing is confirmed yet.
On the Ray Tracing side... Pascal is capable of Ray Tracing, but it's much more limited compared to Turing, not just in performance but how extensive the effects are, I would expect the same to hold true for Ray Tracing on Graphics Core Next.
Ray Tracing is an inherently compute limited issue.

As for the SSD side of the equation... Zen 2 will be leveraging PCI-E 4.0, so I would assume the SSD would be using that bus for an insane amount of bandwidth, still got my doubts it will be a useful amount of storage though, not with the size of games today and the price of NAND.
Might be a hybrid approach.

taus90 said:

A custom Ray tracing solution designed for closed off API will be much more efficient that a PC version. 

Citation needed.

DonFerrari said:
If true it will have SSD and a lot of our forum experts were fooled by sony on this /joking.

End of the day... If it comes packed with a large and fast SSD... Then it's good for gamers and I am happy to be wrong... But the original idea was that it won't come with an SSD and fit in at the $400 USD price point, still stand by that.

Still. Console hasn't launched yet... Still skeptical that it won't be anything more than a cache/hybrid setup at most... 1 Terabyte SSD's aren't exactly cheap enough for consoles yet.

Trumpstyle said:

But it's correct, HDDs are completely useless, you're suppose to know stuff. Try play World of warcraft on HDDs, its not possible. You get loading times that are between 1-2 minutes and the game lags for several minutes after, this with the fastest HDD that exist, western digital black desktop mechanical drive. While on a ssd the game will load in 5 seconds and no lag whatsoever after.

I said 2 months ago it's 100% certain that the next-gen consoles will have a SSD or NVMe drive (1TB) and I was correct.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pmGtb24aumA

Proves my point, HDD is useless.

Mechanical Hard Drives aren't completely useless, that benchmark uses a 1 Terabyte Western Digital Black which is far from being the fastest mechanical disk on the market... Those drives came out in 2008 and usually topped out at around 100MB/s.. Today's decent mechanical disks can top out at around 180-250MB/s.

Plus next-generation mechanical disks are about to launch with Microwave/Heat assisted recording, multiple actuators, larger Ram pools and faster processors, they still won't beat an SSD, but by no means are they useless, especially in sequential reads.

dharh said:

At first I was thinking M.2.  But if this is right it might be either a proprietary on motherboard set of chips or drive, or uses a non yet standard next gen spec.

Probably integrated straight onto the motherboard to reduce costs and complexity and piggy backing off PCI-Express. What will be interesting is if Sony will still include expandable storage via a SATA outlet.

DonFerrari said:

theoretical or real world...

From what we heard from stadia it seems to be about X1X level of power, while this seems to be about double (on raw number, performance will be much higher).

On real world with latency, bandwidth and all else Stadia will be lower than full HD, this will be about 4K (capable of 8K output per the interview).

Stadia beats the Xbox One X. It's Vega 56 vs Radeon RX 580 levels of difference. (I.E. Bit less than double the performance.)

This console is likely to best Stadia.

JEMC said:

With the 8 core Zen 2 CPU, the console won't be limited in that front like the actual ones have, and Navi should give it a nice boost over the Pro and X consoles.

Also likely confirms that Zen 2 is going to have 8-core CPU complexes. Which is a good thing in my eyes.

HollyGamer said:

The problem  with using SSHD is,  the benefit of having high speed loading data will not be directly build inside the system. Because all the performance and benefit of fast loading data will only be be attach to the SSHD, and if someone by means try to remove the hard disk and replace with normal HDD all the benefit will be loss (or even worse , PS5 games will not working) .

Actually the statement  from the article explained on how the fast loading benefit will be the standard for PS5 performance, this require a dedicated bus/nand flash ram/ memory soldered directly to the motherboard. And it will be using the same principality with how intel optane work on the PC, but of course PS5 will not by any means using Intel Optane as the nand flash memory. I am using Intel Optane as an example on how SSD/Flash memory will work on PS5.  

The exception here is if the console has the NAND integrated onto the motherboard and will cache any and all drives on the system automagically.
Just like SSD Cache drives of old on the PC.

Keep in mind these benchmarks are from 7 years ago and the drive is only 30GB... But there was still a massive reduction in loads.
https://hothardware.com/reviews/hard-drive-overdrive-corsairs-accelerator-series-reviewed-?page=4

Makes you wonder how a modern drive using PCI-E would do.

simek said:

Sony co-developed navi with amd, and co developed ssd drive. In some way they own the technology, so i dont think they need to wait for prices to drop. In a bizzare way i can see Microsoft paying royalities in some way for Navi tech. We don't really know what the agreement is between Sony and Amd on Navi tech.

Sony do not own the IP to Navi.
Navi is Graphics Core Next, it predates even the Playstation 4.

Sony wouldn't even get a look-in on building the GPU in question, they can make suggestions, but you can bet AMD would like to keep it's IP.

TallSilhouette said:
Music to my ears. Most interested in that SSD. Can they afford to make it a purely solid state system or will it be a hybrid setup?

Also love hearing more about 3D audio (and using ray tracing for it). Sound design hasn't kept up with visuals at all. It needs to be physically rendered just like other elements. Should do wonders for stealth and multiplayer games and reduce the reliance on your hud.

The irony is... We were heading down this road in regards to Audio, then in the last decade or so the entire industry went backwards.
The Original Xbox for example had Sound-storm which could do full positional 3D audio... And even the PC was a step above even that with Aureal A3D.

It is no rumor, it is an interview with Cerny.

Sony can sell it for 399 if they want, it certainly won't cost less than it to make though. And I wasn't aiming at you, but you know that in that thread it was about "SSD is impossible, even if small, consoles are price sensitive so they will only use HDD".

I was aware that Stadia would beat X1X, but what I had was that it was close, not about twice stronger. That is good =]

spemanig said:

DonFerrari said:

theoretical or real world...

From what we heard from stadia it seems to be about X1X level of power, while this seems to be about double (on raw number, performance will be much higher).

On real world with latency, bandwidth and all else Stadia will be lower than full HD, this will be about 4K (capable of 8K output per the interview).

Stadia is more powerful than XBO X and PS4 Pro combined. That was confirmed by the specs shown at its reveal. I don't know where you heard that it's only XBO X-level, but that's false.

Stadia is also shooting for 4K 60fps at launch, with 8K 60fps as time progressed. I don't really like thrown out numbers like that anyway because it's just unsubstantiated flexing, but that's also something that was said explicitly at reveal. It has as much validity atm as anything confirmed so far for PS5.

I'm really just curious how streaming platforms will compare spec-wise to standalone consoles. The next 3 years will be buy far the most interesting in gaming since maybe the Wii/DS/XB Live era. So transformative with streaming, VR, and new hybrid platforms like Switch entering the mainstream. (pun intended) Considering rumors of PS5 being $500, I wonder if they'll consider selling a cheaper $400/$450 model that's digital only. Exciting times!

On the reveal I just heard they were posed for next gen. And if you knew the specs why were you asking?

Digital only just saves the money on the drive, 30USD by losing the drive doesn't seem exciting at all.

And yes being server based they can up the spec of their server as much and often as they want, but considering what we have been seeing on Netflix, Youtube, PSNow and internet infrastructure I don't think real experience on streaming will be better than regular console for next gen.

Mr Puggsly said:

Werix357 said:

SSD as standard is a good thing, open world games have been limited by HDD for sometime now.

I call bullshit on that. We see games loading faster and streaming data better on Xbox One X even without a SSD. We even see 360 content benefit significantly from BC like faster loading and less texture pop in issues.

SSDs certainly help load times, mostly in open world games as well. But when open world games are actually running its CPUs, GPUs and RAM that matter.

With that said we're likely gonna be stuck with 1TB SSD, but I guess they determined its fine for the average consumer.

You certainly didn't read the interview them. Simply putting a good SSD and making the system based on it have made it possible to travel faster in game (like Infamous and SM had traverse speed limited due to rendering) and of course the fast travel became real fast travel. It certainly will also make reload/retry much faster. He also talked about loading screens being a thing of the past.

Dante9 said:

COKTOE said:

You know, I've had 3 active DS4's ( about to open a 4th as one had developed severe drift ), and although I have noticed some variance, I've never been anything less than totally satisfied with how long the charge lasts. I do have rumble turned off, which certainly helps, getting 10-12 hours out of my favorite red DS4. Agreed though. A bigger battery would be welcome.

Turning rumble off and turning the controller light dimmer probably help somewhat, but I tend to have gaming sessions so long that even those are not enough. My solution? An extra controller. It's so convenient, I always have a fully charged controller at the ready when the other one dies out. If you don't wanna pony up for another controller(which may be used in local co-op as well), just get a long ass charging cable so you can charge while playing.

Haptic feedback? Nah, I'm good.

I prefer to have 2 controls (so when I have someone else playing together I'm good to go) than to have additional batteries. You can always have a control in charge if you want, and if the control is out of juice you just hook a cable (I have an outlet near my sitting position that I can use for the controller when needed). If you are out of battery on X1 then you have to put it to charge before using or going out to buy more. I have a lot of batteries but all the time I discover all being uncharged.

taus90 said:

TranceformerFX said:
"Cerny claims the console will support resolutions up to 8K along with ray tracing"

4K gaming is BARELY hitting it's stride and Cerny is all about potential 8K gaming? RIGHT, CUZ WE ALL HAVE 8K TV'S AND JUST WAITING FOR 8K GAMEZ TO COME OUT...
Seriously dude, one step at a time... Alot of people still have 1080 TV's despite 4K TV's being super affordable. The consumer market is NO WHERE near the phase of comfortably pushing for 8K gaming, cuz gamers are barely adopting 4K gaming as the standard.

And only an idiot would be excited for ray tracing because HDR was supposed to be the big thing for PS4 Pro/One X but developers STILL haven't gotten implementation and tech for it to work smoothly on 4K TV's that are HDR compatible.

Everyone's super excited about this, but I'm like "whatever" about it - Mark Cerny needs to come back to reality.

Well from my understanding it wont be native 8k support just like PS4 Pro 4k support, this will be sony next iteration of their check boarding rendering, which will be beneficial for VR and also Cheap AA solution via super sampling an upscale 8k image. 

I would say it is more likely that the HDMI output and a chip for upscale is present when you hook it up to a 8K TV, so movies/shows that are 8K can be played on it and games can be upscaled in the future. But I don't think a single relevant AAA game will be over 4k native.

Biggerboat1 said:

simek said:

I think they aiming 499. Going above is a suicide.  With the psn and ps4 money (the PSN is making as much as whole Nintendo yearly) they can take a hit in the first year and subsidies the cost. I think its all in next generation as it may be the last generation (streaming taking over), and the one who wins take the most of the market.

The specs are important but what is really imprtant they left for the real annoucments:

-the controller

-vr

-portable strategy

-streaming and all the services

Not sure if someone already corrected this but I believe the PSN number you are referring to is the revenue & you're comparing to Nintendo's profit - so apples and oranges!

Nope, there have been some years, mostly during WiiU time, where PSN made more money than Nintendo, just look for the threads here on VGC.