Brexit

[Bofferbrauer2]

NightlyPoe said:

Bofferbrauer2 said:

That's where you got it all wrong.

The reason it would only come into effect in 2021 is that during the transition period the UK would effectively still be in the customs union, hence no need for the backstop until then. Without the transition period the backstop would have come into effect the moment the UK would leave the EU with a deal.

Umm, no.  That's where I was completely correct from the beginning.  I said if the UK sends back an agreement in which they aren't permanently locked in, then they could continue negotiating for the next few years instead of facing a hard border in a few weeks.

You decided to throw a meme at me and tell me the hard border was automatic without the backstop, instead of something to be negotiated later, demonstrating that you didn't understand what it was.

I then correctly define what it means, and then you repeat what I said and tell me that I'm wrong.

Nobody wants a hard border? I heard that one before:

"Niemand hat die Absicht eine Mauer zu errichten!" (Translation: Nobody wants to erect a wall!) GDR State Council Walter Ulbricht, June 15 1961, weeks before the Berlin wall started to be built.

I'm sure comparing the British not giving up their sovereignty to East Germans imprisoning their own citizens sounded clever in your head.  I assure you, it wasn't.  It was in nothing but poor taste.

They don't like the Backstop? That's totally okay, but then they should come with workable alternatives instead of just being naysayers.

There's two, more likely four years to explore how the Irish border will be handled while they're in the transition period.  The only thing they're saying is that the EU doesn't get to lock them in and give them a tool for essentially dictating terms at the end of those negotiations.

In the end, it's the UK's border.  The EU and even Ireland doesn't get to dictate it.  They can negotiate, but this attempt to strong arm is pretty much exactly why the EU itself (and international institutions in general) are problematic.

The transition period will only come if there is a deal ready before April 12. And such a deal needs to have a backstop or other such mechanism to be accepted by the EU. You don't understand that the backstop (or any replacement of it) must be part of the deal and that one must be accepted by the UK parliament before April 12, or there will be no deal.

The UK had almost 3 years but all they did was saying what they didn't want. Now it's high time to tell what they want. The Irish border was something they should have figured out in that time but they didn't. They obviously didn't figure anything out, by the looks of it. In fact, the Irish border should have been considered before even coming to the vote.

Also, how do you get to "2, likely 4 years"? December 31 2020 is the last day of the transition period, that's less than 2 years. And don't expect it to be lengthened, the hardcore brexiteers are already very unhappy about the transition period existing at all and certainly don't accept any extension to it.

In short, the UK had any opportunity to figure that out, but they rather squandered their time. Time's up

@bolded: It didn't sound clever, it's just what the ERG is doing. They don't want a wall, but refuse everything that would avoid a wall. The result will be a wall at this rate if they can't decide on something within the next 3 weeks.

The ball is on the Uk side for some time now, it's time to play. They thought they were holding all the cards, but found out just how wrong they were. It's not the UK, but the EU who holds the cards, but are ready to relinquish some if the UK finally makes a move - but they are waiting for that for months now.