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jason1637 on 17 March 2019
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Cobretti2 said:
jason1637 said:

Yes. Dictatorships can still happen and if the government passes laws that take away rights it's up yo the people yo revolt with gun power.

There is no reason for a 1st world country to be run as a dictatorship.

You are already oppressed through taxes and laws that ensure you are not motivated to rise above a certain level. The harder you work the less benefits you get. The less you work the more government benefits you get, and in turn these people vote for the gov that give them those benefits. A small price to pay to stay in power and get rich.

Then you got hidden taxes in all the things you buy which offset those benefits anyway. Then every so often they raise the retirement age for eligibility to get the pension.  The next generation will work till they die.

I mean that if the government begins to oppress its people more outside of taxes. Its the people responsibility to fight back.

Pemalite said:
jason1637 said:

NZ already has some strong gun control laws put in place. I just dont think they should make it even harder to obtain a gun.

They should make it harder. The evidence says it saves lives... And as you should very well know, I am all about saving lives.

jason1637 said:

And criminals will still find ways to get guns with stricter gun laws.

So unless we can 100% remove all guns, then gun laws are pointless is what you are trying to say?
Never-mind the fact that homicide rates have remained low and is actually continuously decreasing on a per-capita basis?

https://www.factcheck.org/2017/10/gun-control-australia-updated/
http://crimestats.aic.gov.au/NHMP/1_trends/
https://aic.gov.au/publications/cfi/cfi066

There was a 47% drop in firearm related from 1991 to 2001. That isn't an insignificant statistic... That's hundreds of lives.

At the end of the day... It seems you are against the idea of saving lives because of a hypothetical what-if scenario?

Gun control removes guns from criminal hands, that is the biggest piece of information you can get from all of this, it's not a situation where law-abiding citizens (You can still own guns!) aren't allowed guns, leaving only criminals with guns, in-fact it's often the reverse that happens.

At the end of the day, you should require strict licensing for the owning of a device that can take lives, you need licenses for cars, motorcycles, boats and so on, due in part to their inherent risks, Guns shouldn't be an exception.

jason1637 said:

Not really. The harder you make it for someone to legally obtain a gun means that you are making it harder for them to defend themselves against those that il;egally obtain a gun.

No it doesn't mean that at all.

In-case you aren't aware... I am an Australian, I was actually alive when gun control was brought in, so I have seen the before/after affect if it... And trust me when I say it has absolutely worked and that is why the majority of Australians continue to support gun control.

I have also owned firearms before, it's not actually a difficult process via legal means, so you should probably stop stressing about it if you have nothing to hide... At the end of the day, I have experienced the effect gun control has had on my nation... And like you I was against the idea to begin with, but the statistics and real-world experience just doesn't lie.

The ironic part about it is that it was a conservative right-wing government that brought in the legislation as well, go figure.

jason1637 said:

Also the harder a government makes it for people to get guns the easier it is for them to oppress the people.

Ugh... Politics of fear. - I can assure you, decades after Gun Control was introduced, Australians are still as free as ever and aren't being oppressed.

Oppression can happen with or without gun control, if you think a powerful government organization is going to be fearful of a group of untrained civilians with guns... Well... Yeah.

I'm not saying that there should be no gun control. I'm just saying that in NZ the laws seem strict enough that I dont see the need for any more gun control besides making it harder for people not fit to have guns to get guns.. They already have background checks which should be enough. They can pass laws that make it harder for menatlly ill people to get guns but banning different type of guns like someone suggested earlier is too much imo.

Your government might not be opressing you guys now but you never know when they will pull some oppressive shit. If that were to happen then your people will equiped to fight back and protect yourselves from the government.