By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
potato_hamster on 20 August 2018
Edit Thread
DonFerrari said:
potato_hamster said:

I mean it's not that I want to consider all of the industry, I want to consider all of the video game industry which has VR solutions. That's Playstation, PC and Mobile realistically. If you want to call say "God of War" niche because it "only sold 8 million" copies only on Playstation, then you're just distorting what niche means to fit your narrative. I'm sticking to where VR has a presence.

i know the fact that the virtual boy had the plugged pulled on it makes no difference to you. Why should I care if it doesn't to you?

I put. 0.0001% as a small number. I have no idea how small it actually is, all I know is that it's not exactly a big presence, it's never been a big presence, and based on its slow growth, no reason to expect it will be a big presence long-term. And 30 million compatible PCs for VR? Considering at least 30 million discrete GPUs are sold per quarter, I doubt that's correct, and I'm not even counting laptops with integrated cards that are capable of running VR now.

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-amd-discrete-gpu-market-share-report-q3-2017/

There's more than likely over 200 million VR capable PCs in people's homes right now, and that's probably pretty conservative.

Ahh so you don't actually know what my predictions were? You're taking someone's word about it who clearly only vaguely remembered the conversation by their own admittance. I clarified my points. But hey, it that's good enough for you, I don't see why i should care about how low you're willing to let your standards go.

the fact that people considered a smart phone to be a "need" doesn't mean it actually is. it's very clearly a luxury item, like VR headsets.

the Oculus Go: https://www.oculus.com/go/ Self contained VR headset, smaller, lighter, decent quality, $199.

As for Blackberry, Did the PS4 go backwards when they announced the PS4 would ship with the Dualshock 4 instead of Move controllers? How about when MS discontinued Kinect? I don't think many would argue that they did. Sometimes you just need to go back to what works best, which is what Blackberry feels they're trying to do. Such negativity from you!

Nintendo/MS/Sony didn't "try to sustain motion controls" with their consoles because their customers didn't want motion controls. They don't miss motion controls. They don't want to toss their controllers aside to use motion controls. Motion controls are no longer a thing because these companies listened to their audience. The motion control fad came and went. Those niche few that still want it can still have it, but for the rest of us, we get to go back to gaming the way we see fit, with a controller/keyboard/mouse. As it turns out, you can't force people to play games in ways they don't want to. See: X1 Kinect, Wii U. Lessons learned.

What did Nintendo's analysts say about why the Wii U failed, I'm not sure, but the end result is the Switch, which again doesn't have motion controls as a primary input, so it looks like they didn't consider that to be a reason the Wii U failed either.

Sony met their projections with the PSVR? They haven't said that since a few months after PSVR released. Since they all they've had to say was that they were "pleased" with how PSVR was selling, not that it was meeting projections.

As for me, I didn't give projections for PSVR for release and I don't care if you think I need credentials to talk about VR sales. Just pretend my credentials are whatever would give me the most credibility in your eyes. This is anonymous message board, so what I have or haven't done or what I know or don't know or what I've learned or not learned doesn't mean shit. the only thing that matters is the ideas I or anyone else expresses. I've said since the beginning that VR has only ever and will only ever cater to a niche market. Until a VR headset starts selling like gangbusters, gets a pile of legit RE VII-like support, and sustains that momentum over multiple product revisions, the VR industry will not have proven otherwise.

One more time, you really, really want to update your criteria. for what constitutes an handheld. I'm doing you a favor for the future. Think harder about it.

And it appears you never understood my point about the whole smartphone crteria - A VR headset doesn't have to have all, or even most of the features of a modern VR headset to be considered a VR headset.

It shouldn't concern to any if the shipment was done in 7 months or 7 years when it encompass all shipment. Unless you have numbers showing that making the frame of analysis bigger would make the shipments higher. As was replied to you this shipment was enough to keep the system on shelves for months after due to sluggish sales.

So your 0.0001% was an preposterous random number you pulled just to say the numbers are bad?

If PSVR sold 3M only on PS4 80M userbase costing 5x more than GoW and still needing extra expenditures on games is niche for you than almost all SW are niche. That is the definition you are bending not others.

I'm willing to bet Pemalite or several other members who follow PC market closely would show how wrong you are about 200M PCs being ready for Oculus and Vive. The fact you have a discrete GPU on your PC doesn't make it compatible with any of these 2.

Let me take it, so like 2 Billion people buying a smartphone considering it a need for them doesn't make a need because you say otherwise. Sure if you want we may say that only water and food are needs. So where are you going to draw your moving line?

Nope Sony didn't go backwards when shipping with DS4 because Move wasn't ever the standard control of PS3. Although they went back on the boomerang because market didn't like it. Kinect2 the same, Kinect wasn't ever the standard input method for X360 and also Kinect2 didn't even get use before being axed on X1. Funny enough for all the flack that Move received, it kept supported for PS4 against Kinect 2. But that have more to do with Sony strategy of diversification versus MS more on it either is massive on market and have chance to monopoly or is cut out.

Blackberry may think it works best, since we have had smartphones with touch become the new standard (which didn't happen in the other examples) it will be very hard for them to go back. What do you think of the chances of VHS, K-7 coming back? What about 5+1/4" floppy disks?

So you brought Nintendo analysts to the table without knowing what they said? Great, thanks for showing you are trying your hardest to win an argument without any backup and trying to throw back spinned arguments to the people discussing with you.

Since we have 2 positive direct info with being over projected and being pleased, plus providing numbers (PSVita they stopped showing numbers when it got bad, and PS3 just got direct numbers when things started being good) make 3 good pointers of meeting or exceeding projections the only thing saying otherwise is your OPINION. Mind to give any source showing PSVR sales are a disappointment to Sony?

You want to toss up the Oculus projection of the past, so allow us to see yours to see your track records. Because your posts themselves doesn't give you any good credentials.

Your criteria in this thread is as flexible as you need to shoot down PSVR and you know it.

So the fact that while it was being sold the fact that the Virtual Boy sold around the same rate as the Oculus Rift or HTC Vive is irrlevant to you because you consider total sales more important than rate of sale? I just want to confirm that for future reference.

My "0.0001% number" represents an insignificant portion of the market in which VR devices exist. There's a difference between 1 in every 10 Playstation 4 owners bought God of War, and 1 in every 2 console gamers bought a Playstation 4 and 100 in every 100 PS4 Owners bought a PS4, or 1 in every say, 1000 owners of VR capable PCs bought a VR headset. If you can't recognize the difference between the two, that's on you. If you want to blow the term "niche" beyond "represents a comparatively small percentage of the potential market it exists in due to its limited appeal", that's fine. I really don't care how you define words, but I'll stick with the common vernacular.

I really don't think you realize how cheap VR ready PCs are getting, both in the laptop and graphics cards spaces. $650 desktop PCs can run VR reasonably well, and those prices will go down by $100 or so now that nVidia launched it's latest family of graphics cards.

https://arstechnica.com/gaming/2017/01/dont-look-now-but-oculus-ready-pcs-are-getting-relatively-cheap/

Also, I didn't say anything about Nintendo's analysts. You did. You misinterpreted me saying "I can find plenty of analysts that make no such insistence that the Wii U failed because it didn't include upgrades Wii remotes as the primary controller" to mean Nintendo analysts. I did not. So what's that about winning arguments? Have you noticed I'm the only one of the two of us actually sourcing my points?

Just because 2 billion people enjoy a luxury doesn't mean it isn't still a luxury. I don't see why this is so hard for you. Cars are also luxuries, so are televisions, so is the internet. I don't see how this is even remotely controversial.  Just because you "feel you need something" doesn't mean you actually need it, it just means you're so comfortable with it you forgot how to live without it. There are millions of people in the USA alone that get along just fine without smartphones. How do they do it?

So Sony creates a motion control system, pushes support in a variety of games, creates peripherals like Wonderbook that make specific use of them, and then with their next console scales back the use of motion controls to literally just VR games, and you don't see that as a step backwards? As for MS, you're flat out wrong with the Kinect 2. The Xbox One was on the Market for eight months before they sold an Xbox One without the Kinect 2. Every single Xbox One sold up to that point came with one. Many people didn't even hook them up but bought one anyways just to get their new Xbox. No only that, Microsoft mandated that developers build in some sort of Kinect 2 support into (I believe) every game that came out for the system until that point. It took months of terrible sales, MS claiming that the Kinect was an "essential and integral part of the platform", or that "Xbox One is Kinect, they are not separate systems", and all kinds of other nonsense before they finally relented. Read here:

https://www.polygon.com/2014/5/13/5713634/xbox-one-kinect-integral-add-on

Tell me, what kind of benefits do VHS tapes offer over Blu-ray? What kind of benefits do 5 1/4" floppies offer over thumb drives? What's that? None? SO PESSIMISTIC!

PS Vita numbers were always bad. They stopped showing them when they got outright embarrassing. They released unsatisfactory numbers for the Vita multiple times before they finally started lumping sales. The mere fact that they're still releasing numbers does not indicate that the numbers are meeting expectations, that is, unless you think Sony announcing the Vita sold 4 million in 2012 as "meeting expectations" of selling just 2.8 million units from February to December. And yes, while it wasn't intended, the Vita turned out to only cater to a niche audience.

For the last time, I really, really don't care what you think of my credentials. It doesn't matter if I'm actually Phil Spencer, Shuhei Yoshida, or Miyamoto himself. If my arguments are out there to stand for themselves, and I don't try to lend any authority to give them credibility. I'm not asking you to take my word for any of it. So please don't. If you don't want to respond, don't respond. That bothers me none.

Nah, my criteria has been pretty clear from the beginning, and has not changed. If you want to point our how my criteria has changed about whether something is "niche" or "selling well" or "a VR system", I'd be happy to listen, but as far as I know I've held the same stance in this thread the entire time.