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Machiavellian on 11 August 2018
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Mr Puggsly said:
Machiavellian said: Are you a parent because your First paragraph sounds like someone who knows absolutely nothing about public schools.  Why do you believe charter schools do not have the same problems as a public school.  What make you believe that the parents who children go to a public school do not care about their child education.  You are throwing out some high brow opinion but I truly wonder where your experience is coming from.

I do not agree if the child is not making an effort or a distraction the kid should be removed.  Not knowing or understanding the circumstances of that child you are already throwing them to the curb.  If a charter school wants to be discriminating like that then why should we the people fund them with our tax money.  Kids go through all type of fazes in their lives, having some draconian system like that sounds like it would be more destructive than helpful even for the very good students.  If they want to go that route then just like a Private school, they can fund themselves.  There have been many children who have overcome problems at home, in their environment and other items that may affect them when someone takes the enough time to care and reach out.  In your world, those children would be sent packing and the results is often worst.  I have no problems with a Charter school being discriminating with who they let within their walls, but I also do not believe I need to pay for such a system out of my tax money.

Just because you have a Charter School in a poor area does not mean its there as a facility to help them or raises the bar over a public school.  You forget that the majority of the funding for those schools are state and local government and some of the organizations that run are in it for the money.

http://socialistworker.org/2014/01/22/the-chicago-charter-scam

As for dumb kids graduating, who says that charter schools do not do the same thing.  They hold up to no standard besides their own and there isn't anything making them not auto pass a kids as long as that kids takes up a seat at the school so the organization gets paid.

To sum this up, I do not have a problem with private, charter or public school.  I grew up in a public school and both my younger kids go to a private school.  My older son graduated from a charter school.  The problems you believe that do not happen in these schools are not there and the totally negative view you have of public schools is also not always the case.  They all have their pros and cons.  I actually do not mind a voucher system if it allowed me to defray the cost of sending both my kids to the private school they go to today.  From my own experience, there needs to be a balance and taking money from the public system if those kids cannot attend private or charter is nothing something I would support.

irstupid gave a great response, he gets exactly what I'm saying. I'm not arguing parents of public schools don't care, I'm arguing people who put their kids in alterative schools generally care more. Shame I have to even elaborate on this, it should be common sense.

Nobody is arguing we throw them to curb entirely, but if a certain charter has higher standards and expectations than a child is will to put then the school shouldn't have to tolerate that. Sometimes performance is crucial to being apart of a program, even tax payer programs. And again, public school is still an option and they get more tax payer money than the alternatives.

You're bitching about where our tax money goes. But that same money goes into the public even if they're shit. If parents want to use that same tax money to pay for private or charter school, what business is it of yours? Let the parents choose what they feel is best for their kids and let them have the financial resources to give their kids more options. Bear in mind your ideology only hurts poor, you rather they be forced into public school with no options if charter and private schools have expectations.

I don't care if any charter schools are in it for the money, I care if they exist as an alternative to parents looks for something else and I would hope they get good results. If people get rich while helping kids, I'm fine with that. Either way, charter schools get less money than public school.

On a side note, I find if funny you gave me a link to socialist website. Its clear where you're coming from now.

I'm not arguing charter schools don't push dumb kids through. I'm arguing public do plenty of bad stuff even with government oversight.

In the last paragraph you sound very reasonable. I think the only area we really disagree is lazy/dumb kids. If alterative schools have higher expectations in performance and behavior, I think that's fine and I still believe they should get public funding vouchers.

This care more part sounds like something you invent when you lack information.  You have no clue how much one parent or another care about their child eduction based on the school the child goes to.  

The reason I care if they are in it for the money is exactly what I posted in that article.  What you have going on is a lot of charters opening up, taking away valuable money from the public system without any measure of their performance.  When money is tied to education, you can see a lot of varying corruption within the system.  What I would be on for is Charters that can prove their ability to provide either on par or superior education.  If they also have that ability, sharing that as a blueprint to other schools including public would also be great.  Hell, I would be in favor even if they charge for it as long as its repeatable.  The thing with this ideal is that since they are for profit organization, they have no real incentive to do this.  Raising the education level of schools would be far better than just allowing a bunch of griffers into it hoping you get one diamond.

I have no problem with school choice and currently the system already have this in place.  You can go to a charter as I did with my older son, a private school like my 2 younger children or the public school.  I just do not want the system flooded with a bunch of garbage taking away money from other schools if they cannot show they have any worth.  Competition is always good in any sector so I am not opposed to that.  Public schools who want to keep their attendance should also be gauged on the same scale of performance.  In order for that to happen Charters have to line up with public and private on a set performance criteria.  Letting this be the wild wild west until something rise up from the bottom is not a good way to go about it.