o_O.Q said:
Nautilus said:

But what i dont understand is this:

You think porn watched by men is the same as rape, because that man dosent ask the permission of the woman, or the men they are watching(because you know, tastes), and thus it constitutes a rape of that woman/men he is watching.Fine, I dont agree but I understand what you are saying.But I still dont get why woman cant be categorized the same, given that she would be doing the same thing:She would be watching a video of some men/woman doing sex, thus porn, and masturbating and/or getting horny due to that video.By your own definition, shouldnt that woman be raping that man?Or that other woman, depending on what kind of video she is watching?You gave the car example, but people arent cars, and outside of biological differences, we all are equal, both in rights and responsibilities.So why the previlege to woman?

Unless you mean that men cant rape, because its obviously wrong, but woman can?Because they are woman?

"You think porn watched by men is the same as rape"

uh you keep saying that i'm saying that and i keep clarifying that "first off i didn't say they are the same thing but that they are nested in reducing women down to objects for sexual gratification"

i suppose what is important is whether you think objectifying women is problematic and whether male entitlement to women's bodies is a problem?

if we can't find common ground there then i don't think we'll really get anywhere


"I still dont get why woman cant be categorized the same, given that she would be doing the same thing:She would be watching a video of some men/woman doing sex, thus porn"

i also said that women objectify women... but that's irrelevant

this not about assigning blame to one gender or another... its about the very real consequences reducing women down to objects have for real women in real life and that is sexism, sexual assault and obviously rape

as i have outlined there is a connection between objectification and the very real abuse women are forced to suffer in our society and it has to stop

one of the first things we need to do is to ban pornography


"You gave the car example, but people arent cars"

i was making a point about the various levels through which objectification is manifested in our society

one level is through porn 

another much deeper level is sexual assault and rape

they are all born out of reducing women down to objects for sexual gratification

with regards to my example cars would be objectification and the different types of cars would be the different manifestations

its not a direct example obviously but i figured it might make things a bit clearer

About the first part of your post, let me remind of something you wrote:

"it literally parallels and emulates rape since the man does not have to get to know the woman or anything, its all about sexual access at the click of a button"

If thats not saying that watching porn is the same or at very least similar to rape, I dont know what it is.Which is absurd by itself, since rape requires you to force yourself into someone(men or woman) physically, and that wont happen watching porn.You must have realized that, since you have been trying to wiggle out of that statement for awhile now.

And about the second part, this is where I start scratiching my head, and just confirms once again that the world can be fucked up when it wants to be.Let me tell you something:Do you know why most people, men and woman included, dont like feminism?Its because of people like you, or at least ideals like the ones you just wrote.When feminism was born, at its birth it was about making men and woman have similar rights.The same rights in work, the same rights in law.Its ultimate goal being, in conclusion, to make all humans have the rights they should have when they were born, both men and woman.At least, thats how I understand it.

But what you preach is not equality, what you preach is privilege.What you want is to have advantage over others, to be superior to them through perks you want the society to give you, or the group you like.That is evident in the part you say that men should be ashamed of watching porn and that is a crime against woman because it objectifies them, but its irrelevant when a woman is doing it, saying that it is irrelevant for some reason, even if the actions both do are identical.You ignore the "sins" of one side, but condems the ones of the other side.Hell, even if I presented irrefusable proof of some group of woman simply evil and doing unspeakable things, you would only say that its because of centuries of "abuse" that have led them to it, and so they are entitled to do that.This discussion is not about equality or about treating a group the right way, its about having an advantage over others and being loved by the majority.

And let me give you a small life lesson:Everyone objectifies everyone.Men and woman alike.At least when people first meet.I lost count of how many people lost interest in me when they found out I had zero or little sexual interest in them and rather wanted to become friends.If I really had to estimate a number for that, I would say that happens for every 8 people out of 10 I meet.The problem with your ideals, other than the ones I just mentioned, is that it ignores human nature.Not men, but human nature, something that is deeply ingrained inside both men and woman.So as long as you respect that person you are having interactions with and respects their rights, there is no problem.Until you readjust your beliefs, you will never be able to grow up, or you will be stuck forever in your echo chamber of people that think like you.

Last edited by Nautilus - on 24 June 2018

My (locked) thread about how difficulty should be a decision for the developers, not the gamers.