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Insidb on 21 March 2018
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Soundwave said:
thismeintiel said:

I agree. Of course, not many people know about that. Still, no one is knocking Cameron's ability as as a director, or the excellence of Terminator 1&2. Really, I don't know why Soundwave turned this into SW VS Cameron. This is about TLJ failing with much of its audience and falling greatly from safe expectations. 

Star Wars has been failing since the 1990s, all I'm saying is this is nothing new. 

Cameron was brought up just to illustrate how he's kicked Star Wars' ass twice with two larger cultural phenomenons. 

And Avatar is not Cameron's best work, but it's easily on par if not better than The Force Awakens (you want to talk about unoriginal, lol) or The Last Jedi and better than all three prequels. 

Star Wars has been crapping the bed since 1997 when Lucas decided to make a bunch of dumb changes to the original movies, things people still hate today, that went right into The Phantom Menace which is the biggest movie disappointment (relative to the hype it had) probably ever and somehow Attack of the Clones managed to be worse. 

TFA completely invalidates this argument, which is why people aren't taking this seriously anymore. Most of your points have been picked apart by very credible arguments. You can't just say, "but episodes 1-3" and have it justify your other points. TFA, RO, and TLJ all won their box office years. TFA is the #1 domestic film OF ALL TIME. It's the #2 film OF ALL TIME. You can't talk about originality, when most of Cameron's works have apparently been lifted from other source material. You can't talk cultural phenomenon, when Star Wars has been part of culture for over 40 YEARS.

ALL of Cameron's films have made about $6.5B, while the Star Wars films have made nearly $9B. You know what, though, that's just the films: Star Wars, as a franchise, has made nearly $45B. It's clearly not "failing" or "crapping the bed," because 8 more films are slated and it's been making billions since the prequels.