Final-Fan said:
o_O.Q said:
very informative but you have not disproved my argument that penguins have adapted wings... in fact you verified it here
"They adapted from wings, and from legs, into something that is different from wings or legs, but which is very similar to what the other aquatic species developed. We (both you and I) call these fins or flippers. "
"Penguins used to have wings. They evolved to have flippers. "
" They adapted from wings, and from legs, into something that is different from wings or legs, but which is very similar to what the other aquatic species developed."
this is wrong, the adapted wings penguins have are covered in feathers... can you name another aquatic creature with feathers?
"Living creatures aren't inherently divided into strict groups. Scientists made these groups up, and adapted the definitions to their 'sources' ( = all creatures in existence)."
"I don't think you'll find that he made the blanket assertion that there exist no groups into which animals can be sorted."
why were you too lazy to go back through the thread and verify whether your claim was valid or not?
his claim above is why i asked the absurd question about whether elephants swim with fish or not... because its obvious that they do not... can you tell me why?
while you're at it tell me why elephants don't reproduce with lions or with gazelles
this has to be the most stupid discussion i've had in a long long time
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1. You didn't address my analogy to bats. If it's true that penguins have "adapted wings" and not flippers, doesn't it also have to be true that bats have "adapted legs" and not wings? If not, why not? If so, doesn't that seem like a ridiculous position to you?
To answer your "aquatic creature" question, I'm not sure—what do you define as an "aquatic creature"?
2. He speaks of two sorts of groups: hypothetical "strict groups" that he asserts are not naturally generated, and human-made groups that "scientists made up" to organize the diversity of life into a structure that makes sense to humans, but which is not 100% perfect.
You say you can satisfy the claim "he made the blanket assertion that there exist no groups" by pointing to the post where he said "scientists made these groups up". At the very least, there is a serious miscommunication that is occurring somewhere here. (Identifying what that miscommunication might be, so as to move past it to understanding, is more important than laying blame on one of the three of us for it.)
3. Once again you simply reiterate your question as if you were using some kind of retard-mode Socratic method. I will indulge you and answer your questions as requested. Elephants do not swim with fish because elephants have evolved to be land dwellers, and fish have (for the most part, I think) evolved to be wary of large creatures splashing towards them. Elephants do not reproduce with lions because their common ancestor is very far in the past and they have become genetically too different to produce offspring with each other.
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"You didn't address my analogy to bats. If it's true that penguins have "adapted wings" and not flippers, doesn't it also have to be true that bats have "adapted legs" and not wings? If not, why not? If so, doesn't that seem like a ridiculous position to you?"
i didn't say that you were wrong... if you want to say that bats have adapted legs then so be it since its a fact
"He speaks of two sorts of groups:..."
look the point i'm making, is that this:
"Living creatures aren't inherently divided into strict groups"
is an absolutely insane claim to make, because we can see for example that elephants do not swim in fish schools...
there is a strict division between fish and elephants, get it?
i made such a ridiculous example because i couldn't really believe i was seeing what he was posting
and obviously you are quite clearly wrong here : "I don't think you'll find that he made the blanket assertion that there exist no groups into which animals can be sorted."
" At the very least, there is a serious miscommunication that is occurring somewhere here."
no there's not, i quite clearly laid things out
if you're still having difficulty parsing things, well at this point i can't help you... i can't really make it any simpler
"I will indulge you and answer your questions as requested."
to begin with i never had any questions for you, from the beginning you started this conversation with a misunderstanding of its context
that's how we got to where we are now
"Elephants do not swim with fish because elephants have evolved to be land dwellers, and fish have (for the most part, I think) evolved to be wary of large creatures splashing towards them."
congratulations, you finally got the point... i think
