By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close
DarthVolod on 02 February 2018
Edit Thread
Final-Fan said:
DarthVolod said:

It was a great counterpoint but obviously the humor was lost on you. I was exaggerating for comedic effect ...

As for the Bachmann comment, god that is hard to hear. Is like 10 people talking over her in crowded room ... but once again context matters a lot here. Was the shutdown deliberate? Perhaps, but we won't know unless someone can dig up a recording or something somewhere that states that in context from a person in a position to actually bring about or contribute to that shut down. Was she happy about it? It seems so yes, but that is, like you said, different from being out to shut down from the start. 

In other words, I can be happy that a rival at work got fired, but there is a difference between being happy about it and actually causing that person to be fired in the first place. 

You can take Culberson's quote in many ways as well. 

We don't really know 100% for sure about the 2013 shutdown and same with the 2018 one. Only thing we know is that neither one really matter like I said. Unless someone can produce solid evidence for either case. We can speculate though and that is about it. 

I think the fact that Democrats were provably desperate to end the shutdown while Republicans were provably willing to carry it on for weeks is pretty damn solid evidence for their relative levels of enthusiasm on the topic of the respective shutdowns.  Some Republicans were so committed to the shutdown politically that they were willing to carry on with it even without a clear policy goal in mind:  "We have to get something out of this. And I don’t know what that even is." (from the Wikipedia article cited above)

So we have come full circle back to my original point. The first post I responded to (and your responded to my response) was suggesting that republicans should just roll over and acquiesce to democrats now when 5 years ago the democrats were unwilling to relent to republican concerns about the ACA during that shutdown. We can argue about if republicans in 2013 and democrats in 2018 forced shutdowns unnecessarily, but the point is that, ultimately, 2013 republicans didn't accomplish anything by shutting down the government and democrats and 2018 are not accomplishing anything either.  

If we are now going to accept as fact now that republicans were hellbent on shutting down the government in 2013 for political means (probable but not proven). Then we must also accept the fact that democrats are deliberately shutting down the government for their own political scheme of obstruction in 2018 (turning down Trumps offer to give citizenship to 5.8 million via DACA and chain migration is proof of this; this was better than anything Obama ever offered). 

If i was in the democrats shoes I would take the deal ... in their eyes they would be trading some funding for the wall and policy changes on chain migration and diversity lottery etc for roughly 5.8 million democrat voters. Seems like a good deal for them ... but they can't just hand Trump funding for his signature campaign promise either ... so I understand the tension. I am sure they would be absolutely thrilled if people were deported as well ... would be all over the media and would be a boon for them during an election year.