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DarthVolod on 26 January 2018
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Final-Fan said:
DarthVolod said:

In 2013 the Republicans were in majority of just the house while democrats held senate as well as the presidency. The original point I was responding to was the idea that 2018 Republican majority senate / house / president are supposed to capitulate to the demands of senate democrats in regards to DACA and chain migration / etc.

If the ruling party is supposed to just roll over and work it out with the opposition then why didn't democrats in 2013 who controlled the executive and half of the legislative branches of government care about republican demands? Ultimately, they were the ones in charge since Obama could just veto things at the end of the line. 

Before going into the midterm republicans need more victories ... a border wall (Trump's key campaign promise no less) and an end to chain migration would be another win along side the tax reform that already passed. Giving the democrats DACA for nothing in return would be a terrible idea. 

The thing is, in 2013 Republicans were specifically gunning for a shutdown.  They didn't want to look for a deal, they wanted to look for a showdown.  Their demand to kill Obamacare was much different from the Democrats' demand about DACA:  it's on a whole different order of magnitude.  It's closer to if the Democrats said "we are going to shut down everything unless you completely repeal the tax bill you just passed".  In fact, it's arguable that the Republicans back then deliberately picked an issue they knew the Democrats could never give in on to stage the battle over. 

On another note, since you are trying to look for parallels between that shutdown and this one, the Republican position in both cases was to change the status quo, while the Democratic position in both cases was to keep the status quo. 

Democrats were not gunning for a shutdown now? They have been saying since at least September when DACA was rescinded that they would fight on this... the reason why they didn't fight on the tax bill is because they had no real power to; they do have leverage on the budget though. Democrats drew a line in the sand on this one the same way the Republicans did before. You can argue about the "magnitude" of it but principle is the same. Immigration is Trump's defining issue and the border wall was his signature campaign promise ... it is a legacy issue just like the ACA is really the only remaining legacy of Obama. 

Change the status quo? the ACA was less than 3 years old in 2013 and not nearly fully phased in. DACA is a bit older (2012) ... still it was created by executive action and Trump removed it in the same fashion ... this was more or less how Obama implemented everything he did. Satisfying solution for both parties would be some path to amnesty for Dreamers and all of the border protection that Republicans want (wall, end chain migration, diversity lottery etc). Changes to status quo is kind of a weird argument too ... it is all kind of relative isn't it? The ACA went against status quo and the original 2001 DREAM act went against status quo too...