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Biggerboat1 on 18 January 2018
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DonFerrari said:
Biggerboat1 said:

1) You just don't get it... You said that if Zelda was a Sony game it would be criticised for it's weak story, yet Sony released GT which has a weaker story than BOTW - your logic is broken. Qwark also listed LBP & Driveclub as having less story than Odyssey, never mind BOTW. If they can be successful Sony games then so can Zelda. How about WipEout Omega Collection, or Patapon Remastered or Singstar...?

Anyway, I'm done with this part of the debate - the facts are staring you in the face - if you don't want to accept that then it's up to you.

2) On GC, Nintendo released Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem, Wave Race: Blue Storm, the Metroid Prime games, 1080° Avalanche & NBA Courtside 2002 - a completely different, and probably by your definition, more 'mature' artstyle to Mario/Kart/Smash etc.

3) It's not one outlier - I have given you other examples.

"How reaching can you get that you want to compare a 90+ with a sub 50 (that there isn't even many to even look at) to accept that Metacritic doesn't define if a game is good or not?"

I don't actually understand what your point is here. You said that metacritic can't be used as evidence of a game's quality... So a 90+ game vs a <50 games should have the same chance at being a good/great/bad game. I'm demonstrating how flawed your argument is by taking it to it's logical conclusion.

4) I said that I didn't agree with your claim that I thought "Nintendo games are all better than the rest of the industry...". I do believe however that in general on Nintendo systems that Nintendo's offerings are better quality. Those 2 views to not conflict so what is your problem?

5) "In 2000, Silicon Knights was signed by Nintendo to create games exclusively for its consoles, during which time it produced Eternal Darkness: Sanity's Requiem. Together with Nintendo, Silicon Knights worked with Konami to create Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes. In 2004, the company ended exclusivity with Nintendo. In 2005, it partnered with publisher Microsoft Game Studios for Too Human, though Nintendo still owned stock in the company." Producer(s): Shigeru Miyamoto, Satoru Iwata, Kenji Miki

You are simply wrong.

My classification has Eternal Darkness going up against Resident Evil 4 - yours/VGchartz's has Pikmin up against Thrillville & Animal Crossing competing with Cooking Mama... riiiiigggghhhhhttt...

Though even by your own questionable acceptance of Vgchartz very arbitrary system of cataloguing games you had:

RPG - Monster Hunter 2.2M Pokemon 1.6M

Action - Lego 5,7M versus Metroid Other M 1,36M

So you actually passed your own challenge - congratulations :)

And Link's crossbow training was not a full-priced game and came with the zapper peripheral at the point that the motion control phase was in full swing on the Wii. It was more of a proof of concept than a game and I think most people bought it to experience what the new dawn of motion control would be like. So not really a fair comparison...

Plus they also really don't belong in the same genre of games. Crossbow training should be in amongst the mini-game stuff, if anywhere.

1) Nope, I didn't said if Zelda was a Sony game it would be criticized by its story, you must have misunderstood something, I said it wouldn't look up to par with the likes of HZD. And that HZD wasn't able to sell as good as Zelda, so no reason to affirm that if Zelda was made on PS4 it would sell greater and etc. None of the games you listed have sales near Zelda so not sure what you are talking about.

My first point on this was quite simple, you said that if Zelda was an IP on Sony... and answered saying that we have an equivalent in HZD and it didn't better than Zelda, but Zelda would look inferior graphically.

2) Yes GC had more diversity on the style than what they used in Wii, WiiU and so far in Switch. So you have stopped saying the art direction is cohesive on Nintendo.

3) Nope, you are doing a fallacy. Saying Metacritic don't determine quality isn't the same as saying the probability of a game under 50 being better than one over 90 is 50/50.

4) My problem? You have a problem on accepting Nintendo Bias as real instead of factual quality.

5) Not mine classification, VGC classification. What was your classification? In what genre RE4 are with Eternal Darkness?

And yes I done your work for you, I have found 2 genres per VGC where a 3rd party outsold Nintendo (although as I said, I have no idea why Zelda wasn't on RPG as well)

Again, please go and compare the genre dominance on Nintendo versus Sony and MS if you still don't believe on the bias.

1) I didn't misunderstand - you said:

"If Zelda was released on Sony it wouldn't have all the praises Nintendo fan give it, it would be a weak graphical game, the story would be bland, etc..."

First of all I made clear (several times) that if the game was on PS4 it would have it's visuals updated accordingly. Second of all, Zelda has a solid story though it's main strengths lie else where. So your supposition that it would fail to sell better than Horizon simply because of it's story is misguided. BOTW is considered the superior game, has the review scores and GOTY awards to prove it - that's why it would have likely sold better.

I listed those other games because they again contradict your belief that Sony games are all narratively driven.

2) I don't know what you're trying to say here... you said before:

"they have the same philosophy on art direction on Switch as they had on GC"

but now you're saying:

"Yes GC had more diversity on the style than what they used in Wii, WiiU and so far in Switch"

You're literally arguing with yourself!

3) Yes, saying Saying Metacritic don't determine quality IS the same as saying the probability of a game under 50 being better than one over 90 is 50/50. If you can't see that then I can't help you.

4) Ok then.

5) I'd say RE4 is more similar to Eternal Darkness than the games examples you listed, but whatever I don't agree with your supposition in the first place so it doesn't really matter how we define categories. All we've managed to conclude is that game sales on a Nintendo platform are more bias towards quality than on the other systems.