George Lucas Was Right About the Star Wars Fanbase

[Nuvendil]

MTZehvor said:

Nuvendil said:

I didn't say he was consistently reading minds, but that it was an ability he had and Luke knew he had.  Also, this has to be thought of from Luke's perspective.  He's lightyears away, marooned on a mostly uninhabited planet.  His only realistic option is to bank on the fact Ren and Snoke absolutely hate him and on the fact this trick would make him look unbelievably powerful.  Like I said, he didn't show up looking exactly the way he did when Ren believed he tried to murder him on accident, he wanted to make him enraged.  Also, it is worth mentioning he may have known Snoke was dead, when powerful force users die, other powerful ones often can sense it if they are paying attention.  In fact, going by Luke's own words, it seems he knew only Ren was there to be challenged.  And if that's the case - a decently reasonable thing to think - it all makes good sense.  Though in reality, this is Luke's only move.  And it's one he could be fairly confident would work cause it worked on the Emperor, who was so distracted focusing all his rage on Luke he never picked up on Vader turning good - even though he was a fellow force user and standing right next to him - until it was too late.  As for figuring out it's a projection, two things work in his favor. One is that Ren would likely never think Luke would just kill himself to buy time, not given his opinion of him.  Remember, Ren knew of this theoretical technique, but commented it would kill you from the effort.  Second is Luke has kept himself profoundly well hidden from Snoke and Ren who have been looking for him for a while.  He would likely just assume Luke is shielding himself.  He is far more powerful in practical terms than Rey.  And again, also, the emotional side of things.  Ren wants to kill Luke, this would cloud his judgment considerably, Luke knows this from first hand experience.

...not to be presumptuous, but it seems like you just spent the last 300+ words undermining your initial argument. If Kylo isn't consistently reading minds, and Luke is aware Snoke is dead, then we're right back at the original scenario where there's no reason to not tell the resistance what to do. If Luke is so worried about the mere possibility that Kylo Ren could read minds beyond those that Snoke connected him with, he could pass a note to Leia, tell her to not read it until he was outside, and then no actions change until Kylo is preoccupied. 

And this is even more the case if Luke knows Kylo is just out there looking to be challenged/take revenge. Even if Kylo did detect some kind of mental/intention change or whatever, as soon as Luke appeared outside, he would probably forget all that and just focus on Luke. This goes doubly if Kylo is convinced that Luke would never simply let himself get killed. Furthermore, as you mentioned earlier, even Snoke, who was far more powerful than Kylo, could only really detect feelings and some basic actions; he couldn't distinguish the difference between a lightsaber being turned to kill him and a lightsaber being held near Rey. Kylo, then, who is less powerful than Snoke, would have even less capability to detect what the rebels were doing in a cave several hundred yards away from him. The notion of Luke banking on the resistance reading his intentions into a plan because maybe some highly emotional guy who maybe has the power to notice intentions will maybe get over his lust for revenge and provide solid orders for once is just a terrible risk-reward proposition.

Damn it, the site crashed.

Not retyping the whole response so here's the cliff notes.

1)  He doesn't have to be CONSTANTLY reading minds for his ability to easily read intentions to be a serious, serious risk.

2) I never said Ren was only there to be challenged, I was referencing what Luke said.  In other words, only Ren was there and he knew it.

3)  Yeah, Ren probably would focus on Luke, but there's other forces there.  He would fight Luke and send the rest to attack the Resistance.  

4)  He couldn't give Leia a note, he was incorporeal.  He did give her the dice, which were an illusion, which was probably a hint to her that he's fine.  It makes sense he only gave *her* this hint since she would be the mlst resistant to Ren.

5)  Snoke could absolutely sense precise intents and thoughts, but he had to obviously intentionally due so.  He didn't because he could sense Ren was fully resolved to the dark side and he had a lightsaber pointed at Rey's head, he thought he had won.  This is something we've seen before, the difference between a surface level reading and more focused one.

6) This is all getting far too complicated for a very small issue which is why I didn't want to get involved in this thread in the first place.