The Xenoblade Chronicles Series Thread: Definitive Edition (All Spoilers in Tags)

[Jumpin]

Volterra_90 said:

Jumpin said:

I don't think there's too much to learn, but the rampant tutorials make it feel that way. It's WAY  too handholdy. I can also see the way they are written may make simple things seem much more complex than they actually are; the whole chain attack one could just circle the party gauge and say "when this fills up, press + to execute a chain attack." then just allow the player to watch what happens. I think having it off to the side in an instruction manual type format would be much superior; especially if it had image visuals. I don't like tutorials, and I think this game relies too heavily on them, and when they introduce stuff, it feels very disconnected from what the player needs. It's almost arbitrarily introduced. To me, this is a minor gripe, something I wish was done differently, it doesn't particularly take away from the main experience though; but I can see how some players, particularly newer players to the franchise, or RPGs in general, may take issue.

On the voice acting, I love it! Easily the best that the series has ever had.

Speaking of which, I hope the Xenosaga games eventually have a proper Western release. I don't necessarily think they need new voice acting, it was decent, but it would be very nice if they got it.

That's my main grip too. I mean, Xenoblade saga is really great, but not a single game managed to do the learning curve right. I'd prefer that to make it more.... integral to the gameplay, they could make a character being your mentor and teaching you things as you progress. Rex's grandpa, for example, could fit that role perfectly. It'd still be too intrusive, but at least it'd feel more organic to the game experience. That wouldn't solve the problem, but, to be honest, I can't think of a perfect way to teach you so many things throughout the game. I prefer this approach to the XCX one, which was pretty much... not having any approach xD.

Heh, I actually loved the way XCX did it. I loved being dropped into the world and given more freedom; but yeah, I have probably played over 100 RPGs all the way through, and am into games like Dwarf Fortress. I also love exploring mechanics and UI on my own. So I'm not necessarily the best example of player to go by when thinking about how to design for most players.

The worst tutorial mess I ever saw was Final Fantasy 8. That seems to have messed up anywhere between 40 and 60% of players. The issue was the tutorial introduction of the draw system, but not at all introducing the core feature for gathering magic - which is the crafting system; it should be introduced BEFORE drawing.

Essentially, crafting/refining magic from materials is the primary way a player can get magic. Instead, players were just accumulating all those items that enemies dropped in battles, forgetting about them, and got all their magic from drawing instead; which is extraordinarily tedious, and likely ruined the experience for a lot of people. It's why you have a lot of people who have Final Fantasy 8 as their favourite Final Fantasy, and many who list it as their least favourite. If they ever remade Final Fantasy 8, then I imagine they would do things very differently in that regard. When I ask people why they hate FF8, drawing is typically their top answer - but the game actually gives you more than enough items for crafting to get through the game without drawing; it's essentially there for players who want to max out more quickly on a specific type of magic - but it is completely unnecessary for game progression, as you get more than enough items.

Speaking of Final Fantasy 8, the Xenoblade games share some mechanics with that game. Takahashi was also one of the designers on FF8, so I imagine they are his work: draw points, proactive dialogue boxes, and refinement.

Last edited by Jumpin - on 04 December 2017