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Turkish said:
potato_hamster said:

No I'm not. I'm treating it as a software/hardware development problem and considering what you need to consider when developing a potential solution. I never said that Framemeister has some magic abilities Sony doesn't. Sony can indeed make their own upscaler as they have in the past. In fact Sony might already have the solution that framemeister has already built, but can't/won't put it into systems because of licesning issues. For all I know Framemeister is licening their upscaling technology from Sony! I have no idea, and I don't care to find out. I simply mentioned that there are plenty of potential issues, both technical and non-technical as to why Sony might not be able to or willing to pull off what Framemeister has apprently pulled off and you shouldn't dismiss them. It's simply not as cut and dry as you imagine it to be. You've blown that out of proportion to accuse me of acting like Framemeister are magicians or something.  Until this thread I have never heard of Framemeister and I don't even know what they make besides "the perfect upscaler" according to you.

But again, Sony isn't going to bother. Their upscaling solutions are good enough as they are and don't need to be improved for your sake.

Go ahead, list one assumption I'm making about Sony's upscaling technologies and capabilites. Just name one.

I won't convince why they technically can't make the device you suggested because I don't know of any reason why they technically can't. BUT that doesn't mean they technically can either, and I've listed many potential reasons why. It also doesn't mean they can for the price you suggested, and also it doesn't mean they would bother doing it in the first place. Sony is in the business of making money. it's obvious to anyone with their finger on the pulse that making the PS1 version of the NES classic without the ability to read discs, without PSN connectivity, without being region free will be far, far more profitable for them then making a device that does even if it was only $40-$60 more expensive. That's not rocket science. Because of that, Sony is never going to make the device you want them to make because they literally have no reason to.

Besides you. Just go buy your little upscaling box, wipe the tears of shatters dreams away, and get over it.

"Go ahead, list one assumption I'm making about Sony's upscaling technologies and capabilites"

"In fact Sony might already have the solution that framemeister has already built, but can't/won't put it into systems because of licesning issues"

One of many assumptions you make. Another one:

"the PS1 version of the NES classic without the ability to read discs, without PSN connectivity, without being region free will be far, far more profitable for them then making a device that does even if it was only $40-$60 more expensive"

Wrong. A modern HDMI enabled PS1, online connected, Sony with their means can make this thing cheap. PS1's library is so vast, a simple preloaded console is never gonna cut it. There have to be so many 3rd parties involved to make the console attractive, unlike Nintendo. With so many 3rd parties to license, even their Crash games, I doubt they'd make a decent profit, than just selling a modern version of their PS1. Making a cheap, toy like preloaded console is not the Sony way, Sony is all about choices, PS1 has over 2,000 games in its library.

I dont really care about all the assumptions you make and the potential difficulties they may have, you don't know anything. Of course there will be difficulties, are you seriously gonna tell me there will be hurdles along the way when developing a product. "Sony wants to make money", yeah they do that all the time by bringing out new products on the market. I'm so happy you lowered the discussion to business 101 trying to illustrate why Sony can't put a world class upscaler in a retro console.

Do you know what an assumption is? That isn't one! That's a suggestion of a possibility, not me assuming it is true! There is no assumption in the example you provided. At all.

Also let me quote myself (emphasis mine)

"Go ahead, list one assumption I'm making about Sony's upscaling technologies and capabilites"

What does my claim about Sony selling a cheaper PS1 classic that has bulit-in games and lacks the ability to read discs being more profitable than a more expensive model have to do with their upscaling capabilities? Ohh right nothing.

Aww that's so sweet with you making assumptions about how much it costs to license a game for something like this. How much does your average game cost to licence for such a device? What's that? You don't know? Another assumption. Got it. If only there was another device to maybe get an idea... like I don't know... the NES classic. 30 games. 13 of which are third party. Some how, with almost half the game library being third party, Nintendo managed to get that console out for $60. HOW DID THEY DO IT??!"

Could Sony do the same? Well let's see:

  • Gran Turismo series
  • Final Fantasy VII- IX (Published by Sony)
  • Tekken series (Published by Sony)
  • Spyro series
  • Hot Shots Golf series
  • Syphon Filter series
  • Twisted Metal series
  • Parappa the Rapper
  • Umjammer Lammy
  • Cool Boarders series
  • Jet Moto series
  • Legend of Dragoon
  • Arc the Lad
  • Jumping Flash
  • Vib Ribbon
  • Medievil
  • Omega Boost
  • Star Ocean series (published by Sony)
  • Parasite Eve series (Published by Sony)


Seems to me Sony could come up with a pretty great games list pretty easily with just first party titles, and considering many of these PS1 classics have been up on the PSN selling for less than $1 or given away for free with PS+, I highly doubt the licensing fees to put other third party games on the console would be prohibitively expensive.

If you want to argue it would be more expensive to essentially repackage an NES mini in a PS1-style shell, put 30 PS1 games on its memory, and throw in a controller than it would be to make something that has an optical disc drive, play all PS1 discs perfectly from all regions (something no PS1 emulator has ever done), the ability to securely interface with the PSN, have gigabytes of internal storage to download games from PSN, have a storage management system, and have the ability to upscale PS1 games at a level never seen on a Sony device.... you are out of touch with reality.

I mean you're essentially arguing it would be more expensive to license 15-20 games than it would be to design, develop, QA and manufacture all of the addiitional shit in the device you listed. That is completely nonsesnical.