Sony needs to sell me a PS1 Classic with these features

[potato_hamster]

Turkish said:

potato_hamster said:

This is getting silly. Sure there is no one solution to anything in tech, that doesn't mean that the critical part of achieving that level of upscaling isn't someone's intellectual property. Let me give you an example. Do you know why most loading screens are boring practically static screens and not mini-games except for a handful of Bandai Namco titles? It's becausethey patented the concept of adding a mini-game to a loading screen. You can't just get around that by making your own loading screen mini-game solution because the concept itself is patented, not the means of achieving it.

But let's assume you're right on your baseless assumption that Sony owns the IP necessary to achieve the level of upscaling that framemeister has. On what basis can you claim they can use their existing upscaler and "update it"? In order to achieve that, they Sony might have to approach upscaling in a fundamentally different way, using different hardware components, and process the image in way that is unlike any upscaler Sony has ever developed. The could very well have to start completely from scratch, and it wouldn't surpise me at all if they did. This is yet another completely baseless claim. It's kinda like saying "I see you ported a PS2 game to the Wii. You should be able to update that code to port a PS4 game to the Switch, right?"

But even then, why would they take retro gaming upscaling seriously? How is that honestly going to make them more money? Do you think anyone is going to think "well here's an SNES classic at $99, and here's PSone classic at $149, but the PSone classic has a better upscaler, so I'll get that one". Better yet, do you think anyone stumbled upon an NES Classic on a store shelf (it did happen) and thought "well I like the idea of the NES classic, but it's upscaliing isn't as good as a framemeister, so it's a hard pass". Not a fucking chance. As long as it looks decent at 1080p, it's going to be "good enough", and it's not going to be worth Sony's or anyone elses time to improve anything beyond "good enough". The investment by Sony is just going to add cost to the device that the vast majority (and I mean about 99%) of the potential market will not care about at all.

The same goes for disc drives.
The same goes for the ability to play imports.

No one gives a shit about these features. Well besides you, and a handful of people that love importing NTSC-J PS1 games and playing them on HDTVs that probably already have modded consoles, and already have things like framemeisters.

My whole "this thing could easily cost Sony more than you're imagining" is not based on nothing, It's based on knowledge of the nuances of hardware and software development, which you love to just gloss over. Making a device such as a PS1 classic does not work the way you think it does. That's an objective fact. I've demonstrated a handful of completely things that you either have failed to consider of continue to ignore mostly out of ignorance and a desire to be right.

Let me put it to you this way. Let's say Sony announces two PS1 classics, and is capable of supplying stores in such a way that everyone who wants one can walk into a store in their community and purchase one when they want. No supply restraints. No scalping necessary. Everyone that wants one will have to be able to choose at the store which one they want.
- The PS1 classic costs $60 with 30 of the most popular PS1 games built in. Crash Bandicoot, Metal Gear Solid, Tony Hawk's Pro Skater, Gran Turismo, Final Fantasy VII-IX, Tomb Raider, etc. All the games that people bought PS1s for. Standard upscaler. No PSN connection. No ability to play PS1 discs. No ability to play PS1 imports.
- The PS1 classic Pro costs $150. No built in games. Better upscaler, ability to play PS1 discs from any region, and play PS1 classics downloaded from PSN.

I guarantee you the classic model outsells the classic pro model by a margin of at least 20 to 1, if not higher, which would make the PS1 Classic Pro a waste of shelf space.

Face it. You just want it to happen for you because you'd love to have one, so you can't see how unrealistic your ask is. As a result,  you have blinders on about it.

"that doesn't mean that the critical part of achieving that level of upscaling isn't someone's intellectual property"

Like I said, Sony are the masters of upscaling, if they wanted it they would accomplish what Framemeister is doing for a fraction of the cost. It's just that they haven't done it, yet. 

Lol at you treating like upscaling is some holy technology that Sony has yet to master and that Framemeister holds the secret sauce to the best upscaling. Sony is the best in the business.

 I'll repeat again: Sony had a very decent upscaler already in the PS3 since 2006. What makes you think they cant update their upscaler?

"In order to achieve that, they Sony might have to approach upscaling in a fundamentally different way"

No they dont, thats just your baseless assumption and treating upscaling as the highest and most expensive form of technology. Your assumption that a small company produces expensive upscalers for a niche market that Sony can never produce cheaper is just laughable. Just like all the misguided people who thought PSVR would cost as much as the Vive and Oculus Rift.

"How is that honestly going to make them more money? Do you think anyone is going to think "well here's an SNES classic at $99, and here's PSone classic at $149, but the PSone classic has a better upscaler, so I'll get that one". "

What the hell are you talking about? No one has made any point about PS1 Classic's upscaler to be a system seller, it doesn't have to be a system seller. You're really obsessed with the Framemeister upscaler and it's supposed magical "exclusive intellectual property". You're assuming so much based on nothing. Furthermore, if someone wants a PS1 Classic, he/she will get the PS1, there is no comparison to be made with a Snes classic.

Sony can make a PS1 Classic with the best upscaling and other features I listed for $99-149. Sony has economies of scale, its vast industrial resources and excellent engineers at its side. Sony only need to assess whether enough people would buy it, and I'm of the opinion that many people will. PS1 was the first console to sell 100M units.

 

I wish you could do a better job at explainig why it's not possible for what I ask, but unfortunately in all your walls of texts you never got any further than "why wud they do what u ask?" and  "they could be holding on to special patents!" or "specialized parts from third parties!"

You really just don't get it, do you? I'm not treating upscaling as anything special. You are. The upscaling technology Sony has is good enough, and isn't worth the effort to update it so you can stick your eyeballs within an inch of your tv as you switch back and forth between inputs on your tv and salivate over whether it's close enough to the framemeister's perfect to be sastisfactory. There's just no reason to put the effort into updating their upscaler. I just listed a whole bunch of reasons why it might not be as arbitrary as you pretend to "update" their upscaler to do what framemeister's apparenty does. You're the one that said it was perfect, and I honestly couldn't care less about it.

I have no idea how framemeister's box does what it does. I have no idea if there's any IP behind it, and who owns that IP, and I don't care to find out. But I understand the implications of IP. I understand the implications of patents. I understand that you can't just emulate what someone else is doing just because you have the resources. I understand that "updating software" is often a nebulous term that can be far more complicated than it appears on the surface. I have clients call me up on a weekly basis asking for this feature or that feature, and sometimes when I quote them it's going to be 4 weeks work, they're shocked because they thought it should be able to be done in hours - because they don't understand software development. Because they don't understand that some seemingly simple change might require completely rewriting major aspects of an application in order to support it. If you think I'm blowing smoke up your ass, ask yourself why you can't change your name on PSN. It seems like such a simple change, doesn't it? Maybe they're just being giant assholes, or maybe they designed the system so that the username is part of the userID.

I'm just not making those assumptions that you're making because I know better. There are far more little caveats to consider that you're flat out ignoring that might be the difference between developing a better upscaler and canning the entire idea.

But let's be clear. This has little to do with upscalers. This is just how software and hardware development works. You have to consider all of the variables when you determine how feasible a solution acutally is. It's not as simple as "well this small company has done this great thing, and you're doing a good thing, so surely you can make that good thing just as great as that company's great thing for a fraction of the price, right?" Maybe they can and maybe they can't. But I'm not about to assume like you're so willing to do.

So keep talking out of your ass about how confident you are about what Sony or any company can or can make and at what price it would be. Keep using the term "economies of scale" as if that means that Sony can make whatever they like for 1/5th it would cost a smaller company without actually knowing what the margins are on any of the components within the device actually are, and how much you can get those margins down by ordering 10,000,000 instead of 10,000. It might not be nearly as much as you think, but hey, why stop assuming now?

It's hilarious how you're grossly oversimplifying absolutely everything about this. But let's not let reality get in the way of your dreams. Unfortunately for you it does mean that the PS1 classic you want is never going to happen, and you're just going to have to deal with it.