| Wyrdness said: Again you not knowing the concept of terminology is not a problem of mine, competitive play and casual play are common terms with multiplayer games, your ignorance of this is not a strentgh for your argument.. No, strawman argument, someone doesn't need to know how to use all weapons to win they just need to find one they're comfortable with, dealing with each weapon is straight forward especially in casual play. No you can have been gaming for years and be casual as being casual is determined by your gaming habits, casual gamers only stick to a few games here and there and they've been around since the NES days. FIFA is a game that many casuals pick up and often casuals would just pick up the platform that has games like these, COD is another game that attracts them as does GTA. No I'm not arguing that using two joysticks blah blah I'm arguing that your argument is flat out daft because under your logic pressing buttons would be hard for casuals because you're using your other thumb, the only mind boggling arguments here are the ones you're desperately reaching for. It's even more contradictory when you're arguing and the game you're trying to highlight will use the second analogue stick. If you can't understand or grasp how context in an argument works it's best you don't try to argue as 2D Mario highlights how being simple helps sell to casuals and Splatoon is more simple then any 3D Mario. Galaxy and 3D World aren't open world like 64, SS and SMO, they're far more linear so common sense tells you that a fixed camera can work in them in an open world game though a fixed camera can be tedious to disastrous this is a prime example of what I'm talking about in you reaching in your argument. Mario games have active threats depending on the situation, level, task etc... Mario also has situations where the threat isn't even an enemy and related to a task you're cherry picking here. Mario even has situations like underwater sections and so on which change the dynamic of the game. Look at your argument here, a get out of jail free card, that line alone just proved my entire point about it not being as casual friendly, your comments about super jumping not being common makes me question your experience of Splatoon even more as it's very common otherwise players would lose ground trying to traverse the map another false claim in your argument. As for enemies I didn't need to respond to it because it's already been addressed and you kept side stepping when I highlighted your logic with the MK and Smash analogy and how casuals buy that game in large numbers. Enemies who can think can not only be worse than AI controlled enemies they're still bound by the same limits as anyone else so that argument never really had any ground to begin with as it can go heavily in the other way. |
Again you not knowing the concept of terminology is not a problem of mine, competitive play and casual play are common terms with multiplayer games, your ignorance of this is not a strentgh for your argument..
So, you can have a mode where you compete with other people, without that being a competitive mode. I guess you learn something new everyday.
You can use a dictionary to verify my usage. If you can show me a valid source that uses competitive as you do, go for it.
No, strawman argument, someone doesn't need to know how to use all weapons to win they just need to find one they're comfortable with, dealing with each weapon is straight forward especially in casual play.
Please tell me what you think a strawman argument is. Then, explain to me how that is a strawman argument. Because I'm not sure you know what that means.
No you can have been gaming for years and be casual as being casual is determined by your gaming habits, casual gamers only stick to a few games here and there and they've been around since the NES days. FIFA is a game that many casuals pick up and often casuals would just pick up the platform that has games like these, COD is another game that attracts them as does GTA.
I still have absolutely no idea how you're defining casual. Nothing about GTA, COD, or Fifa makes them particularly casual games. Especially since all of those games have a ranked mode.
By casual, I mean someone who does not have much experience with videogames. What definition are you using.
No I'm not arguing that using two joysticks blah blah I'm arguing that your argument is flat out daft because under your logic pressing buttons would be hard for casuals because you're using your other thumb, the only mind boggling arguments here are the ones you're desperately reaching for. It's even more contradictory when you're arguing and the game you're trying to highlight will use the second analogue stick.
See, this is what a strawman argument is. You're claiming that I made an argument I never made, then attacking that argument. When you use the words "under your logic" 9/10 times you're making a strawman.
I never said using two joysticks at a time is hard. I said it is more complex than using one joystick. By that logic, using buttons and a joystick at the same time is more complex than just using a joystick. And indeed it is more complex, which is different than hard. Using two joysticks, multiple face buttons, multiple shoulder buttons, a d-pad, and gyroscopic sensors all at the same time is more complex than using a joystick, two face buttons, and one shoulder button at the same time.
I never said at any point that Splatoon was an especially hard game. I said it was more complex than 3D Mario. More things to do at once=more complex. It's not complicated.
You know how before I said no Mario game in over a decade and a half has required a second analog stick? After playing Mario Sunshine a bit, I have to admit I was wrong. NO MARIO GAME SO FAR HAS REQUIRED A SECOND JOYSTICK. In about a half hour of play, I was able to get five shines without ever touching the C stick. Admittedly though, I had to use the four buttons (Fludd, jump, switch nozzle, center camera) consistently. I also had to press the B button six times for what it's worth.
I used the L button solely for camera control. However, if I was so inclined, the Y button functions to go into first person mode, where you can adjust the camera with the left stick. There is literally no reason you would ever have to use the second joystick in any Mario game, so a player who has difficulty with that setup will never have to use it. On the other hand I'd be very surprised to see anyone having success in Splatoon without touching the second joystick.
If you can't understand or grasp how context in an argument works it's best you don't try to argue as 2D Mario highlights how being simple helps sell to casuals and Splatoon is more simple then any 3D Mario.
If you need to make a personal attack at every sentence because you don't have any point, maybe you shouldn't be arguing. I am a very smart individual with a bachelor's degree in English and a Master's degree in education^_^. My reading comprehension skills are pretty strong. You might want to entertain the notion that the problem lies with you.
What I don't grasp is why you keep bringing up that simpler games are better selling to casuals, since that's a point I've agreed with you on several times. I also can't grasp why when we're contrasting A and B you keep bringing up C, D, and E.
Galaxy and 3D World aren't open world like 64, SS and SMO, they're far more linear so common sense tells you that a fixed camera can work in them in an open world game though a fixed camera can be tedious to disastrous this is a prime example of what I'm talking about in you reaching in your argument.
Galaxy does not have a fixed camera except in certain parts, mainly the 2d ones. 3D World's camera is mostly not fixed either.
Mario games have active threats depending on the situation, level, task etc... Mario also has situations where the threat isn't even an enemy and related to a task you're cherry picking here. Mario even has situations like underwater sections and so on which change the dynamic of the game.
Are you contending that enemies with set patterns that are only active in your immediate vicinity are more complicated than human opponents with no set pattern that are active regardless of where you are?
Look at your argument here, a get out of jail free card, that line alone just proved my entire point about it not being as casual friendly, your comments about super jumping not being common makes me question your experience of Splatoon even more as it's very common otherwise players would lose ground trying to traverse the map another false claim in your argument.
I don't see how that proves it. Having a way for a player to get past a challenge that is too hard for them makes something more casual friendly. It lets you bypass any difficult part, and focus on the challenges they can handle. A game having a parts where someone can die does not instantly make it not casual friendly O_o...
Super jumping puts a giant target on you. If any enemy is in the area, you will most likely be killed. My experience is that people will more often (in Splatfest at least) opt to not utilize it, particularly in smaller maps. Your experience may have been different, so I'm not going to "question you" if you experienced something different.
As for enemies I didn't need to respond to it because it's already been addressed and you kept side stepping when I highlighted your logic with the MK and Smash analogy and how casuals buy that game in large numbers. Enemies who can think can not only be worse than AI controlled enemies they're still bound by the same limits as anyone else so that argument never really had any ground to begin with as it can go heavily in the other way.
No, you're addressing an argument I never made, that I am now explaining for a fourth time I didn't make.
I'll try this one more time. I'll try one more way. Adding sugar to a beverage makes it sweeter. It doesn't necessarily make it sweet. If I have a beverage with two teaspoons of sugar, 3 cups of hot sauce, and a gallon of citric acid, that beverage is not going to be sweet. But, it is sweeter than it would be if it had 3 cups of hot sauce and a gallon of citric acid.
Similarly, just because Mario Kart has one complex element (intelligent enemies) doesn't mean it is automatically too complex for casual gamers. It also has other elements that make it less complex. For instance, the game gives better items and speed boosts to help players who are less skilled, offers an automatic mode for players who are unskilled, offers various control schemes of different complexity, primarily only involves guiding your character laterally, and so on.
Just because it has one complex element does not mean it is a complex game. Splatoon though has a lot of elements making it complex, and few to mitigate that.
As for your argument about AI controlled enemies being better, that's sort of ridiculous. You've played Mario games right? The enemies are controlled by incredibly simplistic patterns and are significantly more limited than you in what they could do. Human foes are much more complex than goombas and koopas by a wide margin. If a company made a game with incredibly advanced AI or where your character is vastly underpowered, you may have a point, but that's not the case here. Mario's AI is among the simplest you'll find in any modern game.
Again for about the fifth time, there is no guarantee people are going to be equal to your skill, because that entirely depends on the average skill level of the players playing the game, and the effectiveness of the matchmaking algorithm. The algorithm is shit, regularly pairing up level 50 players against players level 10 or below. That's actually primarily why I stopped playing, because at level 20 something I was constantly 20+ levels below everyone else in the match, therefore less experienced, and therefore got my ass kicked.
Aside from that, if there aren't a lot of casual players to begin with, you're going to get matched up with better players. For instance, if you have a game like Blazblue, you're going to have a hardcore fanbase, so you're not likely to get matched up with someone at your level. If Splatoon's fanbase skews more to experienced players (which is what we're arguing about), then you're going to wind up getting paired up with people who are better than you.
So, we could go round and round some more, but since you won't listen to reason (and I'm guessing you'd say the same to me) I have another idea. I'll make a topic simply asking whether Splatoon or 3D Mario is more casual friendly, without any input from either of us to swat things (unless you'd like for us both to present our reasoning, we could do that too). We'll count up the number of responses (up to the first 20 I think will be sufficient), and see which people feel is more casual friendly. Winner gets sig control for a month. Deal?
