Games that ruined entire franchises

[GOWTLOZ]

SegataSanshiro said:

GOWTLOZ said:

1. That is fixed in the Definitive Edition on PS4 and Xbox One. But DMC Devil May Cry's style of combat manouvre is a little different tha previous Devil May Cry games as you said and its more about crowd control than fighting singular enemies which it does do well with the arsenal of weapons you have. A different style of Devil May Cry that is a mixture of God of War's crowd control fighting style and Devil May Cry's fighting game like combo centric battle system. Yes the game's new style still allows a variety of creative combos by the player which is what I look for in a Devil May Cry game. Its a reboot so you shouldn't expect the exact same style of game.

2. Yes colour coated enemies reduced that combo centric fighting system to a more simple one which was a problem. I didn't say the game is devoid of any problems but you can gloss over this relatively minor annoyance because of the way it is done. Red and blue colour coated enemies appearing at the same time forced you to change your fighting style on the fly while dealing with them. It required you to strategise and required better adaptation during a battle.

3. Aerial combat is easier than in previous games because it takes a differnt approach to aerial combat. Its less about staying in the air and more about being as efficient as you can be in the air as enemies are weaker when juggling them and you have to try to stay in the air to defeat them as quickly as you can and try to slam them hard when coming back to the ground. A different approach and less challenging doesn't make it worse. I don't agree with difficulty being the only measure of how good a games mechanics are, if that was true Dark SOuls would have the best mechanics in video games but it doesn't have as good combat mechanics as any of the huge hack and slash games.

4. Style system is easier than most Devil May Cry games but not all. Its definitely more difficult and better compared to the first Devil May Cry game where you could mas buttons to get an S in combat. Here you have to do a variety of combos with different weapons like Devil May Cry 3. Sure Devil May Cry 3 has better combat but I never said that wasn't the case either and in terms of style system, both are really good.

5. Any game with combat is easier when playing at higher framerates. As for boss battles I agree, those were weak in DMC Devil May Cry. The Vergil one was pretty good and so was the Ninja enemy that was not a boss but a very technical battle.

6. You didn't menhtion how the camera in DMC Devil May Cry is better than every other Devil May Cry games. Some Devil May Cry games have had horrible cameras that have negatively affected the combat. In Devil May Cry the boss fight with Griffon was one of the worst boss fights in any game I've played because you couldn't even see where he was due to the camera which was centred on the ship instead of him. Also all the platforming segments in that game and many normal fights were poor due to the camera. Same with Devil May Cry 2 and while the sequels were better they still had issues. This game did not have camera issues. And platforming is also a part of the game and I am someone who looks at the overall quality of the product as well and that is why DMC Devil May Cry is the best Devil May Cry game.

It's quite easy (and lazy) to dismiss an entire fanbase for being irrational and illogical. As time has passed since the announcement, release, and re-release ofDmC, you'll find that DMC fan concerns were warranted and justified, whereas there is a contingent of people who will insist on vilifying the DMC fanbase simply for fighting for something they care about. "White hair lol" wasn't a point of discussion a year after the reveal.

The most reductive and ignorant people will attribute the distaste of DmC Dante to "DMC fans hate change." As with any fanbase, there will be a subset that will despise any change to their sacred formula, but the DMC series as a whole is no stranger to change.Ironically, the hardcore DMC fanbase might be one of the most tolerant of change from game to game. The character focus has always shifted gears significantly from title to title. Every sequel featured a dramaticchange, usually in character and scope. What was not compromised, however, was the attempt to hone and deepen the gameplay with each iteration. DmC was never advertised as such. In fact, DmC was advertised as an attempt to reach a casual demographic with a gritty urban western aesthetic at the expense of certain areas of gameplay depth.

Most hardcore DMC fans played DmC. Played it to death. Played it more than most people defending it. It's why we know there were problems with the original release. It's why we had issues with 30fps, no lock on, color coded enemies, broken devil trigger, broken damage values, broken style meter, and all around poor boss design. It's also why DmCDE changed all of these things. Because Ninja Theory recognized that all those little whiny fanboys had a point, and understood how to patch some of the glaring holes in their game.

All DMC fans don't universally hate change. They hated the changes that they saw coming throughout the development process because they recognized them, and spoke out against them. And continued to attack the game after release while they experienced those issues first hand. 


But let's take a step back and look strictly at the superficial character design of DmC Dante. To argue that he was just the same as DMC Dante is either disingenuous or blind. DMC Dante was a goofball. Yes, even in DMC1. He was silly, over-the-top, slapstick, and lackadaisical. DmC Dante tries to appeal to a different kind of cool. There's no question that DmC Dante is harsher, cruder, and an anti-establishment bad boy archetype. He's not DMCDante. He may be something you prefer, but he's not the same character. You have to understand that what DmC was proposing was the complete abandonment of a character that fans had grown attached to... not the change of that character, the deletion and subsitution. And while I certainly wouldn't argue that these are objective reasons why DmC is worse than DMC, I would argue that it's a perfectly legitimate reason for someone to not spend their hard earned money on a product that doesn't appeal to them.

The fan reaction to DmC's Dante was one spawned out of fear. The classic series might not have things that you care about, but there was an existing dedicated fanbase that was threatened with the dissolution of the gameplay/story/characters that they loved... all while the series was arguably at its peak gameplaywise (saleswise definitely). And all for the sake of westernization and chasing God of War money. This has been confirmed by Itsuno in postmortem interviews - if DmC sold incredibly well, it would have been the series going forward. It seems that Capcom actually created what is essentially an irreconcilable rift in the fanbase.

It doesn't help that Ninja Theory, Capcom, and games journalists had the audacity to demonize the fanbase as a whole for actually speaking their minds and voting with their wallets. The entire tortured development process wasn't easy for Ninja Theory, but Tameem did no one any favors in how he opted to speak about the fanbase and outright ignore feedback. Thank God not everyone on the development team wasn't as blind as Tameem and certain members of Capcom. Key members and combat designer Rahni Tucker took feedback from the DMC and DmC fanbase to make DmCDE, a vastly vastly improved game all around, because they saw the legitimate concerns and criticisms from fans.

 

As someone who actually knows game design mechanics and does specials on my channel about it. FACT not opimion DmC is a poorly designed game. Something about every moron at IGN doesn't know. So I am done with this because I am right. Also fact is it did kill the series. Sold less than Capcom expected and killed any chance of a DmC sequel. Capcom learnede their lesson and brought back the real Dante in PXZ series.

Your reply sounds out of sync to my reply. I thought we were discussuing the games not the fanbases. Anyways I'll reply to what you have said.

I never called the entire fanbase bad because that is never true for anything that has millions of fans. Its the vocal fanbase on the internet that completely ignored that the game might have good gameplay just because the protagonist didn't appeal to them. I am a huge Devil May Cry fan and I definitely prefer the older Dante who is badass compared to this new one who the devlopers thought is cool and badass but is quite a jerk. However I'm a person who cares more about other aspects of a game like gameplay, pacing and level design over how appealing the protagonist is.

Play the first two Devil May Cry games and tell me how DMC Devil May Cry has worse combat than those games. Its better than those games in terms of combat and this is a new formula made by Ninja Theory with guidance from Capcom and for a first attempt it is amazing and with sequels the combat would have improved. I'm sure DMC 3 would have had better combat than Devil May Cry 3. That was if this game was financially successful which even though it wasn't does not indicate it being a lower quality game like you imply as sales of a game don't always reflect on the quality of the game and in this case it was the hate train before the game even released and the dislike for its protagonist that caused it to bsell so low similar to how today many gamers on thsi site would never play a God of War game because they think Kratos is a one dimensional character without having played any or many of the games as his character is developed over six games especially in the spinoff games that many people tend to pretend don't exist because they think only mainline games in a series matter.

The writing in DMC was bad and I never said otherwise don't put words in my mouth saying I like the character as he was portrayed in the game. Again I'm not too fussed about how good characters are in a game which some people think is the sole point of playing a video game. I don't give a fuck about apparently brilliant characters like Nathan Drake who are portrayed in a way that society considers likeable. Anyways take away Nathan Drake and all the cliche likeable characters in Uncharted and what do you have? A bland cliche story I've seen in Hollywood movies hundreds of times, terrible platforming, poor gameplay pacing with entire chapters consisting of you just walking and doing some simple platforming and some good gunplay. Yes that's all it is. And I know how to view and distinguish several aspects of a game and not fall for one or two quirks that the developers designed to take attention away from those aspects.

I'm a God of War fan and I don't think DMC's Dante appeals to many Kratos fans. Kratos is a badass with a painful story and God of War games have amazing narratives and characters that portray the tone of Greek mythology really well. DMC has crappy script and a cliche story.

As for the bolded part have you made any game with amazing or even good level design and pacing? If so which games have you been involved in development? Apparently you aren't a very good developer than because many people with anaytical skills have criticised previous Devil May Cry games for their terrible platforming segments and cameras. That's not good level design.

That comic is hilarious though and one I would agree with given how these characetrs have been portrayed xD