Goatseye said:
AsGryffynn said:
Except that, as I mentioned, those examples happened at the worst time imaginable...
1. The Japan campaign took place under the cloud of the British Imperial plans to keep Russia out of Asia. In fact, they were blockaded by the Brits from going Eastwards. Had the actual fleets made it to Sakhalin, Japan would've been terminated and none of the Fascist Imperial bullshit would have started. France wanted to help, but it might lead to the UK attacking and neither were in a position to stand up to them at the time. The Tsar was bleeding Russia dry and the Empire was annoyed.
2. The Russian theater falls after peace negotiations. The people want the government out and the military falls apart as factions grow more powerful and start staking claims upon Russia. It ends when the government asks for support and they end up booted off the country instead.
3. Hitler sent the vast majority of his forces to Russia. The contribution from the other front was negligible. It was Stalin who rolled them back and chased them off Poland. It was they who marched in and seized the city. Every single important thing in that war was the Soviet Union's doing...
4. No military in the world has ever defeated guerrillas and it's believed it's impossible. The US also had to leave Iraq and were powerless in Syria. Never mind them trying their hand at bringing peace to the exact same dirtball with predictably hopeless results...
5. Even then, you seem to forget the politicians in Washington running around and yelling "We're all gonna die!" during the JFK era and how the commies were outperforming your technology with outdated equipment. Or how they are outperforming anything with less than half the enemy forces since the Georgia raid...
6. And it seems they both have a lot. Didn't I mention during the Georgian affair the invaders were outnumbered and they still outsmarted the Georgians?
Don't underestimate the enemy because it doesn't plays on your team. These guys seized most of Korea from Japan, kicked Napoleon in his family jewels, turned Hitler's dreams on his head and told the British Empire to lay off Egypt.
You don't mess with Russia without paying a high price.
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4- US had to leave Iraq because the Iraqi government and its people demanded so. Not because they were defeated like Russians in Afghanistan. And remember, Russian bombings in Syria aren't doing much to help Assad as well.
5- The Georgia raid was funny, like Saddam Hussein's army going head to head with the US military in 2003. Place Russia in Iraq after 2003 and they would feel what's real modern warfare. And the commies never outperformed US in terms of tech competition. Just because US military wasn't parading their latest military prowess on their Red Square, doesn't mean they didn't have anything equal or superior.
6- Again, Georgia didn't/doesn't have means to confront Russia on a conventional war. A better example would be the Chechen Wars in the 90's and 2000's, were Russians got their a** handed to them.
No one should be underestimated but overestimating Russia here seems like a mere prapaganda tovarish.
I liked that they always stood up to Western imperialism, but they were no saints as well.
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1. The USSR could have stayed in the country for as long as they wanted to as well. They just didn't see a point in staying around fighting guerrillas who were obviously funded by the US. That and the bombings did help Assad find his footing again.
2. Like the missiles who were far less efficient yet their range and ability to down fighters was equal or superior to the advanced tech the US was able to field at the time (this doesn't count new technology). By the way, the Russians beating the tar out of people when outnumbered is hardly news. This shit has helped Russia wins actual conflicts before.
3. Chechen Wars? You mean the ones were they decimated everyone back into FARC wannabees when they got their act together after Putin seized power?
Oh it isn't. When NATO admits they have no way to respond to a Russian invasion, it sort of highlights how brutal they are able to be. Anything else is nothing but hubris. And I know they are no saints as well, but in a world where those two are either busy with each other or gone, I am happier...
