Face it. It is over. Trump won.

[Machiavellian]

Mr Puggsly said:

sundin13 said:

Fair. They are both liars, but trying to downplay someone's lies on either side is just silly and pulling out the measuring stick and trying to act like one guy's lies are better than someone else's is also fairly ridiculous.

I disagree. Trump's lies have more to do with hyperbole and flip flopping on positions. Perhaps that doesn't bother me as much as it should.

The things Hilary is lying about and has been caught lying about, well that concerns me more.

Mr Puggsly, you have to hold Trump to the same criteria that you hold Hillary.  When Trump make statements like "Obama created Isis" for the uneducated it does not sound like hyperbole.  When Trump claims that Mexico is sending their rapist and muders across the boader when there is no shread of evidence to support that claim.  When Trump make statements to farmers that Clinton "want to shut down family farms" but then you can go to her web site and see the absolute opposite. The list is very long on Trump just making up stuff when he is speaking.  Its one thing to use data and try to paint it in favor of what you are talking about, its something totally different when you just make stuff up hoping no one will take the time to check if what you say is true.

I have read pretty much every speach from Trump, Clinton and even Gary Johnson and the common theme with Trump is that he is the only one that make up his own facts.