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fatslob-:O said:

I didn't say that. What matters in a business are legal contracts! Being a president is a more open ended job. Like I said, elections are not business as you are not appealing to people at their whim for profits ... 

Deep down nobody truly knows what a candidates feelings truly are so trying to even make a judgement on his personal identity is foolish. You should examine him for how well he can sell his platform and by "examine", I mean observing his strategy. A presidential candidate is doing a good job if they can sell their platform, there's no guarantee what happens next after their elected much like how there's always free speech but no guarantee from freedom of persecution in a few countries ... 

Machiavellian said:

As you stated what matters in business is legal documents but if you put something in writing then yes you can try to wiggle out of it in court but it still shows the character of the person when they use  deceptive ways to get what they want.  No matter how you spin this, you are making an excuse for any person whether in business or anything else that is deceptive with their business partners.  Saying that only thing matter is the contract is only looking at the binding document but the character of the person who seek to deceive others to gain the all might dollar is a choice by that person to do business that way.  Just like with Trump University and Trump Institute, was everything illegal, no but was it dishonest, deceptive and buit to seperate people from their money but not give them value for their investment yes.  To be deceptive, dishonest and money seeking is a choice.  Its the same thing I have seen you critize Hillary for but for you its somehow different because she is in office while Trump is not.  This is making excuses because it really doesn't matter what job a person currently have since their character is the same.  If you are dishonest in business no matter how you try to spin it, you will be dishonest in everything else.  

fatslob-:O said:

 You can never truly judge anyone's disposition (you can only make an observation when there's bound to be blind spots) and not especially what goes down in a business deal, you can only measure how well he's selling his platform but it looks like your not buying it so let's leave it at that ... 

Machiavellian said:
Fatslob, its not that I am not buying Trump platform.  I have a very big problem with anyone who base their platform on a buch of lies.  Its one thing to take facts and try to make them look good for your position but its totally different when the majority of the words that come out of your mouth are outright lies.  With that said, it seems you are trying to deflect the fact that Trump during his speehes have told outright lies and in some just made up stuff to support his position. As mentioned before, its a character thing.  Once you continue to tell someone lies, its very hard to then believe that person even when they tell you the truth.

Machiavellian said:

Tax returns don't show net worth, only a financial disclosure form will do that providing everything is given specific numbers. I didn't say his net income was 400 million, I specifically mentioned that it was his operating income. Trump is REQUIRED to list his overseas income on his financial disclosuure form and just because he might have money in a foreign bank account doesn't mean that the government has ownership of his money. You don't need a tax return to figure out if he's borrowing money, holding foreign assets (aside from homes or other very personal things) or even doing investment activity. Tax returns are a drop in a bucket compared to financial disclosure statements when the former only gives more details on charitable donations and specifically the taxes they've paid. Ross Perot didn't release his tax returns before the elections and he would've had a real chance at winning if it weren't for the threatening plot so I don't see why Trump is obligated to do the same when it could hurt his chances at selling his platform since the usual scrooge accusation could be thrown at him. He could release his tax returns after the election and you would still get the same amount of transparency, the only difference is when ... 

You can't possibly equate Trump's level of openness with Clinton's when he's far more accountable with his record than Clinton is since she tried to avoid prosecution at the highest level by deleting around 15000 emails while pinning the blame at someone else and colluded a nefarious plot with the Clinton Foundation compared to hiding his TAX RETURN ?!!! ... 

Not even wikileaks has any dirt on Trump!

Plain and simple, I do not care about the openness of Clinton.  She has absolutly nothing to do with what Trump is responsible for.  He want to run for POTUS and he is giving nothing but excuses as to why he will not release his tax forms.  Throwing Hillary into the mix is only a way to try and deflect his responsibility. Trump has not been open on anything that he does.  He is not open about his business deals, he is not open about his medical history / record and he isn't open about his Tax returns even though he could easily post the ones that are not under audit.  Finaicial disclosure do not show everything, its only one half of the equation.  Even the stuff Trump released in his disclosure only show revenue not income.  Trump is obligated to show full disclosure and it will matter to the demographic he needs in order to win.  So while you can give all the excuses you want for Trump, if he want to be like Ross Perot then he better get ready to release those returns.

The reason why Turmp should release his taxes is because it gives transparency into the things I listed before.  No one care what Ross Perot did because he was not representing either the Democrates or Republicans and he lost.  This is another sign that you choose to take the excuse instead of asking why we need to wait unil after the election.  That makes absolutly no sense because we already went down the character line.  He is already on record saying he would release his returns multiple times but when its time to deliver we get the excuses even though he can release his returns that are not being audited.    Anyway, if he is seeking public office as he is, its his responsibility.  Waiting until after the election only means that he is hiding something.  

Also why is wikileaks needed for dirt on Trump to validate if there is dirt??  I do not need wikileaks since there is enough info on Trump using just plain old google.