Game of Thrones Battle of the Bastards

[theprof00]

ClassicGamingWizzz said:

theprof00 said:

Her killing of Ramsay was beyond moral justice. 

She just sicced a pack of dogs on a tied down victim ensuring an agonizing death, in a very dramatically ironic fashion, and smiled about it. I know we like to think of the characters in the show, and even ourselves, as people who would be right to do the same. But what's being ignored is that the kill was grotesque. It was something that should've curdled any normal person's blood. She took pleasure in it. 

Not even the hound is so ghastly. Not even the mountain. Not jon, not anyone. It takes a special kind of person to do that, and the only people we've seen do anything like that are Ramsay, Joffrey, Khal Drogo, Visaerys (talked about it), even Danaerys is getting close to being a villain.

Remember, that there are many kinds of villains other than the card-carrying types listed above. Some villains think they are good. Some are Knight Templars, thinking that they are doing the right thing despite what they have to do (like stannis). 

Some references for your consideration of fallen heros turned villain:
Batman's Harvey Dent
Griffith from Berserk
Anakin from Star Wars
Sephiroth from Final Fantasy

All have several things in common, ambitiousness followed by a singular or prolonged event of upheaval which completely changes the way the innocent/naive person thinks about the world, causing them in most cases to commit an act that is beyond normal justice, and crosses into moments of madness and eventually when the dust settles...villain. 

EDIT: Another eerie similarity is that all of these characters, including sansa, hold the belief of "I know better than you do", like she said last episode.

Well, ramsey was the most despicable guy to appear on GOT, he killled her brother, he raped her lots of times and and what probably did other things more, she saw him skin people alive, he was a bolton and boltons killed her brother and mother betraying them, etc.

Do you think Arya is not a hero too ? Did you remember last season xD

I understand the thoughts of some people that what she did was justified. I'm not saying it wasn't. But do you think if Jon had killed him, it would've had the same meaning? In France there is a defense called "crime of passion". It's like, you come home to your spouse and find them in bed with someone else, and in a rage, you kill them. If you can prove that you blacked out, or was in an uncontrollable emotional state, then you're good.

Sansa was not in this position. Jon was. Jon, despite being in a complete rage, held back. He watched his brother die feet away from him. He charged an entire army by himself. He saw so many of his friends die, and still stayed in control enough to stop, because he knew that it was sansa who deserved the kill.

But sansa didn't slit his throat, or stab him, or poison him, or have him beheaded, or anything like that. You're introduced in the very first season the way a stark is supposed to execute someone, and that's a quick death. Jon even had to do this with the little kid. Jon is very much the paragon of Ned Stark. He is more Ned than any of Ned's actual children.

I know I seem to be going on and on about Jon, but I only do so to show you a contrast of what Sansa did. Sansa murdered him not only in a physically barbaric way, but in a psychologically torturous way, by killing him in such a dramatically ironic way. Lots of people say that what Ramsay meant by "I'm part of you now", means she's pregnant and he knows. GRRM likes to have dual meanings that are both true. Perhaps she is preggers, but really, she is just like Ramsay. What is the famous quote? gaze long enough into the abyss, and it'll stare right back into you.

Remember also that she treated Rickon as if his eventual death were simply a fact of life. Who can possibly have a smile after their brother died? No matter if you got vengeance. People don't smile when murderers on death row are executed in front of them.

Now, you asked about Arya, true Arya killed several people, and she herself is somewhat out of control. But we also see this season that she couldn't bring herself to kill in cold blood. And that really, Arya is just a badass. She's very similar to the hound in that respect. Remember also that GRRM was once a D&D editor. The alignments of characters is quite diverse. Arya fits the alignment of chaotic neutral.

I know that we may have a difference of opinion here, and I totally appreciate that. Just remember this convo in the future, when you realize sansa is out of control and she fucks someone over big time.