Florida Pulse gay club attacked.

[Soundwave]

sc94597 said:

Soundwave said:

So what's the solution. "Fight" what? An idea? How do we do that. By huffing and puffing our chests and going to war? Are you going to go fight on the front lines? 

The Middle East was carpet bombed again and again in the years after 9/11. Yet there seems to be more extremism now, not less, maybe dropping bombs on people doesn't work, all it does is create more people that hate the West it seems. 

This one guy shot up a club, and I'm not even entirely sure his motivations were purely religious, sounds like he had some issues with his own sexuality. 

Certainly not, and you won't find Sam Harris saying that either. The solution is to not let homophobia in the Islamic community get a free pass just because Muslims are a minority. To not accept regressive views, even if the people are non-violent. Basically treat Muslims how we treat Christians, with disdain - when they say hateful things, and with praise when they show they care about others. 

But also, to help westernize and liberalize Islam throughout the world via ideas.

 You don't think the bolded has anything to do with the religious views of his family and himself? 

How do you do that though? Because it very easily becomes Islamophobia and is seized upon by people of that ilk as an excuse, which then pisses off Muslims, which leads to them feeling more alienated/isolated, and then guess what happens. 

To me this is a zero sum game, yes we need to push for more liberalism, but we cannot become assholes in the process about it either. That is just to lead to the cycle above. 

Even now Christiainity still has massive issues with homosexuality, it's only really in the last 20-25 years that people in Christainity who were anti-gay have been really shamed for their views and that type of POV is no longer considered mainstream. Expecting this to happen overnight with Islam would be nice, but ultimately probably not realistic.