Hiku said:
darkknightkryta said:
I can assure you, you will be punished. I remember in Marvel vs Street Fighter, I learned the timing so well back in the day, I could punish you right as your feet would hit the ground. Plus its common knowledge the start up and end time of normals (Like, your lights are safe unless some programmer hates you, etc). They're mostly within range of each other. Hell I was playing Alpha 3 last night and Zangief kept on doing bullshit. Throwing me out of mid animation soul spires. Which is utter bull. But, you adapt. Hell his spinning pile driver was hitting me while I would be in the middle of a ranged hard normal (Rose has a pretty high range with her normals) which should have hit Zangief, and would have hit anyone else (I find Zangief's priority insane in most games).
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"I can assure you, you will be punished."? If you mean that you will always be punished by an opponent if you are in a punishable state, then that's not the case 100% of the time. Both players and CPU fail to do this from time to time. Which can be missleading. Over time though, you will notice.
However, that was only a small part of my point. It wasn't just about if something is safe or not, but how safe or punishable something is. It sounds like you either didn't read, or understand my post above. If it's the former, then please read through it again. Or is it that you don't quite understand how frame data or frametraps work? If so let me know and I'll try my best to explain it.
I'll try a simpler explanation here: It's not just about whether or not you will be punished, but how much of an advantage or disadvantage it leaves you, as the difference one single frame can open up for a lot of different possibilities. It can make the difference of punishable (slightly and severely) or safe, at a disadvantage or at an advantage (frametrap setup), and how strong of a button you can use for that frametrap.
The human eye can't discern the difference of 1/60th of a second. So a few frame differences need to be properly tested.
And regarding what you said about normals startup being "mostly within range of each other", while true in some cases, again, one single frame difference can change a lot. And an example of the complete opposite is again Chun Li's Back + HP. In this game it's +2 on block. In Street Fighter 4 (close HP), it was -7 on block. And even -2 on hit. That's an astronomical change to the exact same move.
While we can assume that most lights are either 3 or 4 fr, and mediums are around 4-5f, even if you want to take a guess rather than be sure, what they are on recovery and block doesn't follow the same logical pattern.
But again, simply knowing whether something is safe or unsafe is just one part of it. Knowing exactly how many frames of advantage/disadvantage will give you new options. And in order to discern exactly how many frames that is, requires testing, because you can't know, or trust, that your opponent will always press their fastest 3frame move after block without delaying it for a single frame. Whether on purpose or not.
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