Is God's existence objectively verifiable?

[JWeinCom]

Dulfite said:

JWeinCom said:

Dulfite said:

Lighting isn't the building blocks of existence itself, though, so it's not really comparable. And I've heard the eternal thing (the one where the universe expands into nothingness, then retracts and starts all over again, again and again, right?), but if that were true why did it start doing that? Why is there anything? Why is there nothing? No amount of math can prove why there is something instead of nothing. None of us can even comprehend nothing, truly.

As for where did God come from, HE didn't. HE was and is and will always be there. That is my Christian belief, based on faith. I can't explain it to you. It's a faith thing. I wrestled with the logic against it long ago, and my faith in God came out victorious and now, years/decades later, nothing else even makes sense to me. Having Christ changes you and changes your perspective, but it's not something that someone who doesn't have Christ can understand fully, so me trying to explain it would be futile. It's just something people have to experience themselves, they can't understand it with their brains alone.

When it comes to the big bang, you're asking a lot of questions.  And that's fine people should ask questions, because that's how we learn things.

Then, when you start talking about god, suddenly, evidence doesn't matter.  And it's fine if YOU want to believe that, but to come into a topic asking for proof of god to point out flaws in other models as your evidence is hypocritical.  Your claims are not special and need to be subjected to the same level of scrutiny if you want to consider them as proof.

As for the whole "you need Christ to get Christ" thing, I've heard it before, and it absolutely seems bizarre.  I was not raised to believe in christ, so I have no predisposition towards that concept.  So, to understand it, I have to believe it first.  But to believe it, I need to already have it.  And the only way to get it is through an experience that I have no control over @_@...

So, as a side question, do you believe that non-believers are punished?  If so, is it fair to punish people for not believing in something that they need experience to believe, when that experience has not been provided?

 

With science, people always seem to base it on facts and not faith. If you have faith in science, then fine, but most people I talk to say there is no faith and it is all facts and theories. That is why I apply different rules to God, because with God being based on faith, I don't have to understand everything and how the whole universe tics, but with science not having anything you can have faith in, that argues we do have to understand how the whole universe tics, and if something doesn't make sense, based on facts and theories, then that puts doubt into it. But again, if you have faith in science (meaning you believe it even if you don't understand it completely, which no human does) then that's different.

And by the way, there is a TON of evidence over thousands of years for the stuff that happened in the Bible having occured (The plagues in Egypt, pieces from wooden ship on top of a mountain scattered and buried beneath tons of ice, accounts for the life of Jesus, etc). It's not entirely based on faith with no evidence.

As for your last point, it's a heart thing. God desires people to come to HIM and to receive HIS blessing of salvation, but people refuse and reject HIM time and time again. And people, all of us, are deserving of the punishments of eternal separation from God (we kill each other, lie to each other, commit all kinds of sexual immorality, and the list goes on). But God, being merciful, offered THE way out of that in Jesus Christ. Blaming God for people going to hell when he has freely offered the way out of it is like blaming a firefighter on a lader extending his hand to someone in a burning building and that person rejecting the hand, it just doesn't make sense. 

 

So... you have completely different truth criteria for the two things?  For science we need evidence, but we don't for religious claims?  That's just doublethink.

But if you have any actual objective proof, then go for it.  There have been lots of hoaxes and unproven claims, but to my knowledge, no verification for any of the bible's supernatural claims.

And, it is nothing like a firefighter.  Because with a firefighter I can see the ladder and I can see my house is on fire.  With god, there is no objective evidence.

You said that I can't use my brain to know, which is the only tool I have.  You said it had to be experienced.  So then, should I be punished for not having an experience that I cannot provide for myself and god has not provided?