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Soundwave on 04 January 2016
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zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:
zorg1000 said:
Soundwave said:

 

If they're making a dedicated video game console .... I'm sorry but the reality that they're going to have to accept is they ARE competing with Sony/MS whether they want to or not. Wii could alter that because the controller brought in tons of casuals, but that doesn't happen without that controller. 

Kids know the XBox and Playstation brand, they're not going to buy a "Nintendo" that's 1/2 the power of the other two and has 10 games versus 2000 for the PS4 by that time just to save $50-$100 on a five year hardware investment. 

Third parties won't support an underpowered Nintendo console ever again either. After Wii U, EA, Activision, and many others are out for sure for that type of proposition. 

There would HAVE to be a mind blowing, industry altering controller for your equation to work. 

I don't think they could even get to GameCube level sales. Just being "cheap" isn't good enough.

Like I don't mean to sound rude about it, but I'm just being real here and not looking at it from "Nintendo fan" rose tinted glasses. This is a system no one but Nintendo hardcore fanatics would buy realistically. NX needs to be much more bold and change many more aspects of Nintendo's (flawed) hardware equation that exists today. 

The Wii did not sell because it was "cheap". At $250 it wasn't even that cheap (about $300 today after inflation, so the Wii U today is the same price and actually comes with 2 free games instead of 1). You could get an XBox 360 for $50 more from day 1 back then too. The reason it sold was because the controller absolutely offered an industry shaking revolution that attracted a completely new audience that was having basically 0 games made for it. 

If Nintendo has *that* idea just waiting in the wings, great, try that again, but my guess is they don't, and if they don't, that's not the end of the world but they have to start thinking outside of the box. 

 

Yes, they will compete in the general sense that every consumer product competes with one another in some form but that does not mean they are in DIRECT competition. Are $300 laptops direct competitors to $1000 Macbooks? What about cheap $100 android tablets, are they competing directly with the $800+ Surface Pro or iPad Pro? Does the $200, 32", 720p TV compete directly with the $1000, 50"+, 4k TV? Do cheap sub-$100 off contract phones compete directly with the flagship Galaxy or iPhone? The answer to all these questions is no, they are similar products but clearly aimed at different demographics just like NX will be to PS/XB.

Casual is not a demographic, it's a stupid term that "hardcore" gamers came up with to discredit sales of devices and games that dont cater specifically to them. And again, controller was not the only selling point of Wii, the combination of software+marketing+price+aiming at a demographic that the others were neglecting were huge factors as well, without those things a controller is useless. So yes the Wii Remote was a major factor in the success of Wii but it was not even close to the only major factor. And once again, why does the console need to replicate the sales of Wii to be a success?

Japanese & indie developers will be on board, Nintendo has strong relations with these types of developers. As far as Western 3rd parties, there are basically 6 major western publishers, EA, Activision, Ubisoft, Warner, Bethesda, Take Two. Bethesda & Take Two have never supported Nintendo in a meaningful way so not having them doesn't really affect Nintendo. As far as the other 4, they will surely give at least minimal support at the beginning and further support will rely on whether or not their games sell well and are profitable, at the bare minimum it just gets the kid/family friendly titles from them that Nintendo currently gets. So worst case scenario is that Nintendo has a strong software output of Nintendo games+Japanese games+indie games+kid/family friendly games.

The problem is there aren't these massive different areas of console demographics. Consoles by their nature are a fairly cheap, easy to use product. That's the entire *point* a home video game console from the onset that they are a cheap, dummy-proof alternative to PCs. 

Yes, that means Sony and MS too. $299-$349 for an XBox One is not a "luxury" item, Sony/MS are not selling Rolls Royce and Lamborghinis here while Nintendo is some mass market savior offering Honda Civics to people who can't possibly afford such luxury items. Or to your analogy, Nintendo sure as hell is not offering $300 laptops to $1000+ Playstation laptops. At best this will be a $100 difference, as PS4/XB1 will be even cheaper a year from now, let alone two.

This is why a $99 GameCube got beat by both the more expensive PS2 and XBox. Game consoles are *all* cheap relatively, what it comes down then it who is offering the best value, and this is painful for some Nintendo fans to hear, but a PS4 with 10x more games offers far more value than Wii U does even if the PS4 costs a little more upfront. 

It's time Nintendo gets its head out of the clouds and realize they're not only in a boxing fight, they're getting their head punched in, and if they don't start swinging back and fighting smart, they are going to get their ass knocked out.

Also I think Nintendo is going to have to accept a painful truth ... the "family console" market doesn't exist in 2015 the way it did in 1985. The console market of today is 95% based in North America and Europe (not 50% in Japan) and they are largely purchased either by A) Grown adults or B) Kids who don't want to play Mario Kart but desperately want GTAV for social acceptance in their peer group. 

That's just the reality of it. If Nintendo had some firm lock on the kids console market, they would not be in the situation they are in right now. Indie developers aren't going to save Nintendo either because they basically put their games on every console, so that's not a savior for them. 

It's time also that more sane people within Nintendo's leadership structure *stepped up* and started making sane decisions in touch with the reality of the market today. Stop living in the 80s/90s. Miyamoto is a brilliant game designer, but he needs to be kept the fuck away from making hardware decisions. You don't let Willy Wonka run the accounting and business side of the chocolate factory. 

 

90% of games on PS/XB are aimed directly at teenage/adult males. There are a number of demographics not being catered to on consoles and that's something Nintendo should try tapping into again. And don't give the bullshit excuse that kids, females & families are forever trapped on mobile because that's not how it works, if a product is appealing to these demographics than they will purchase it.

You have said it multiple times that the "casual" market is fickle and purchases whatever is the hot, new hyped up product. If that's true than there is nothing stopping these people from also playing games on non-mobile devices if such a device is appealing to them.

 

Unfortunately that IS how the market works. Casual market is largely being served by mobile. Nintendo fans need to face the reality here ... mobile is not some small little sheepish compeitior that can be easily pushed aside. It's arguably snowballed into a monster that's the biggest force in gaming today. More people play free mobile games on a daily basis than likely Sony + MS + Nintendo devices combined. I don't personally like app games, you probably don't, but lets also not be naive to what's actually happening here. 

I'm seeing more TV commercials for damn smartphone games than all console games combined. I've seen that Arnold Schwarzenneger war game commercial like 10+ times this holiday week alone. 

90% of Nintendo are aimed at adults/teens too ... they just have a candy-colored veneer over them whereas Sony/MS use more adult themes, but Splatoon isn't something a soccer mom is going to play without getting her head blown off (errr ... "splatted"). The new Zelda sure as hell ain't for her. Xenoblade? Hah. Even the 3D Marios are too complex for people who don't have developed skills in gaming. If you can play 3D Mario, you can play anything on a Playstation or XBox. 

Nintendo isn't really a "casual gaming" company, even the original Donkey Kong arcade game was hard as hell compared to something like Pac-Man. Their games are as deep and challenging and complex as basically the core industry staples (GTA, "Calladooty" as the kiddies call it, Uncharted, etc.). They just design their games with cartoon characters instead and a little more user friendly to start playing. Making things like Wii Sports and Wii Fit was stepping out of their comfort zone and wasn't really what the company was ever about. It wasn't in their DNA, and they failed to iterate on that with things like Wii Music and Nintendo Land not hitting the same jack pot. 

If Nintendo's R&D has some magic new controller that they've *product tested* (with real human beings) that is elicting the same response the Wiimote did 10 years ago ... then *GREAT*. I agree with you. All your problems are solved Nintendo, make a cheap console and ride that controller like a porn star rides a ... well .... uh ... you get the point. 

But I don't think they have that. Those ideas are exceptionally rare, and even the Wiimote ... they didn't invent that even. It fell into their lap when the inventor of the device (a gaijan American *gasp*!) got turned down by Sony and MS first. That is extremely fortitutous and probably will never happen again. And that's OK. There's no reason to cry or pout if that's the case. 

Get yourself together, get your company together, start listening to the market, work hard (that means market), take some chances on new software. In other words *DO WORK*. Get down on your knees and work your ass off, harder than you've ever worked in your gaming lives Nintendo. Stop waiting for a miracle to bail you out. That might honestly be the best thing for Nintendo as they've needed that kick in the ass for the longest time and this smartphone revolution might be what makes them finally have to sober up.