Should governments start regulating religion?

[Dulfite]

JWeinCom said:

Dulfite said:

I was saying Soviet Union was atheistic, not Nazi Germany. However, now that you bring it up, in no way shape or form was Nazi Germany related to Christianity. They can call it whatever they want, as many people do, but nothing about Nazi Germany reflected Christ's commands and guidance laid out for us in the New Testament. Would Christ have wanted Jews imprisoned, tortured, and killed? Would Christ have wanted people to be hated for what they looked like or what their background was? No. People can claim that they are Christian, but if their lifestyle is standing against what Christianity is all about (being more Christlike), then they are lying. That isn't to say Christians don't sin, but rather if someone claims to be a Christian and their entire lifestyle contradicts that, with no remorse, then they are lying to themselves and others.

Regardless of what you think the MAIN causes of Nazi Germany and Communist Soviet were, they were both led by people that either had an extremely twisted and distorted religious view or people that believed nothing. The actions that they committed, the persecution of people of faith (particularly Jews in both Germany and U.S.S.R) were terrible, terrible crimes that make them no different than modern North Korea, ISIS, and Boko Haram (I don't have the concern to look up how their pathetic organization is spelled so not sure if that is right). Because their actions were horrible, people will always look to what could have driven those actions into fruition, and belief systems are something people always look for when determing the cause behind atrocities and benevolence.

In the context, I felt that you were implying that Nazi Germany was an atheist state.  If you weren't, then my bad.  As whether or not he was or was not a Christian in whatever sense you believe the word to mean isn't important.  What is, is whether or not Christianity was an influence, which I don't think we need to get into unless you'd like to.  And... I think you could make a pretty strong biblical case for torturing and killing Jews.  Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the point that those who do not believe in Jesus (for instance the Jews) deserve eternal torture?  The bible is filled with the murder of non-believers in yahweh and jesus.  Do you believe the whole bible to be true, or just the nice turn the other cheek parts?

Anyway, this is the no true scotsman fallacy.  If whenever anybody takes actions based on their religion that you disapprove of, you brush it off by saying they're not true adherents of religion, then religion will come out looking squeaky clean.  However, when we consider, particularly in regards to Islam and Christianity, the frequency with which these religions are explicitly appealed to when attrocities are commited, then we should examine the religions closely to see if they are harmful, and if they are worth keeping around in the absence of any evidence.

Edit:  As a fair warning, I enjoy debating this issue and am absolutely trying to bait you :).  If you don't enjoy defending or debating your faith, then don't feel obligated to engage me.  

I don't debate my faith, but I do try to clear up misconceptions that people have due to a multitude of things. If people are just trolling, then their is no missional point to talking to them as they won't believe you regardless and will just try to bring out the worst in you.

I like to break down things like this into points, so if you will indulge me...

1) A Christian is someone who follows Christ. Christ told his followers to love people, not kill them. Never once did HE command any of his followers to inflict harm upon people or to do anything to them that wasn't loving.

2) This is a concept that is hard, if not impossible, for an unbeliever to comprehend but I shall try to break it down. Under the Christian faith, there is God. It isn't good vs. evil (as the world tries to tell us), but rather God and, therefore, godliness. The absence of godliness is what we call sin. God is perfect, therefore HE cannot have sin, because sin is the opposite of HIS nature, as he is perfect and holy. We are all born into the sin (whether you are the Pope, John Piper, John McCarthur, C.S. Lewis, some random Mcdonalds worker, a stripper, or anyone else). We are born into something that is counter to God, because we do things that are imperfect. We don't always love, we often show hatred towards people (in actions and in thoughts), we commit adultry, we murder, we lie, etc. We are born into it because, originally, of the original sin with Adam and Eve. Even from our youth, we are selfish in nature (crying when we don't get what we want, trying to manipulate parents and others in order to get what we want). We are never innocent. God knew this, and HE didn't WANT us to be void of him, to be sin filled, and didn't want us to be separated from HIM forever, so HE sent HIS son Jesus Christ to live, die, and resurrect for us. HE has done all the hard work, it's just up to us whether or not we want to accept HIS forgiveness or not. HE isn't going to force people to believe in Christ as their savior (not until the end). Yes, eventually every knee will bow, and many will be cast into Hell but that is only because they CHOSE to NOT accept Jesus as their savior. At that point, there is no one to blame but yourself as you had ample opportunities to turn to Christ (as an adult Christian now, I marvel at how many things I see now that would have easily made me believe in Christ had I not been a beliver). We are intended to be with God, but if people chose to live without HIM through HIS son, then they are chosing hell themselves. I can't force someone to chose Christ, and I wouldn't want to either; you have to desire it yourself (as I did and continue to do).

3) Again, Christ never told us to harm others, that doesn't mean the Father doesn't have the right to. Yes, God punished people that turned away from HIM, but it always brought people back to HIM making them realize their need and love for HIM again. It's easy to, as a non believer, read randomly through the old testament, find verses that appear to contradict the Christian faith, and post about them online. Context is more important in the Bible than in any other book in history for understanding. God will do whatever it takes to make HIS love for us known, which often times makes people get out of their comfort zone by experiencing (what we perceive as) terrible things. I myself have experienced some terrible things in my life that I doubted God's purpose for, at the time. Now, years later, I see how it turned others to Christ and turned me more to God. If I can go through suffering that ultimately leads myself and others to either have an initial or growing relationship with Christ, then praise God!

4) Christianity isn't a status. You have to accept Christ and have your life turned around. It's not a club that you can just randomly join. When you accept Christ, HE changes your life. If your life doesn't change (Hitler) and produce fruit, then your lying to yourself about your faith. You either have Christ ruling your heart, or you don't. Hitler most certainly did not, therefore he is in no way representative of any form of authentic, Jesus loving, God fearing, Christianity.

5) There is nothing I enjoy about these conversations, unless they bring people to faith in Christ. It saddens me, as it does many, how something that appeared so foolish to me and other believers (before we believed), now is so sensible, and yet we cannot make it sensible to the unbelievers. It takes faith and with faith comes a greater understanding of what is REALLY going on.

1 Corinthians 2:14English Standard Version (ESV)

¹⁴ The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned.