Ben Stein to take on Darwinism on April 18

[Final-Fan]

Slimebeast said:

misterd said:

Slimebeast said:
I haven't dug deep into this movie, but if it really is propaganda and uses cheap tricks, I'd say that's part of what we ID-supporters need as a counter weapon against Dawkin's (the intelligent idiot) atheistic crusade against religion and faith.

First, Dawkin's is respected for his scientific research, but his militant atheism is not embraced by the scientific community. The vast majority of scientists would take issue with science being used to make any theological judgements.

Second, I'm fairly certain the Good Designer would not endorse the "by any means neccessary" method of spreading The Word.

Third, ID proponents claim that ID is a scientific concept. If so, there are legitimate ways to introduce the idea and confront conventional orthodoxy. That's what I tried to illustrate in my post about Lynn Margulis. At the moment, the majority of the leaders of the ID movement are engaging in cheap hucksterism. If your goal is to put God into the science classroom, then be honest and admit it, or you are just as sinful as they are.

I wasn't arguing that "the Word" per se should be spread through propaganda or "by any means neccessary". Just counter cheap jerks like Dawkins.

The_vagabond7 said:
I really hope that last post was a joke. Inferring that propaganda is a necessary tool against science.

No. See above, his first sentence. And sometimes you need propaganda to counter propaganda. Dawkins is full of shit, making ridicule of the whole "first cause"/God concept, placing it side by side with Unicorns and the Spaghetti monster.

But you're still saying it's OK to use dishonest tactics as long as the other guy is.  That means that if Dawkins can say "Hey, they started it!" then it's okay for HIM to do it; the whole thing devolves into dishonesty always being OK as long as you've been the victim of it, which everyone has on these controversial issues.  I thought it was the atheists who were supposed to be all into moral relativism?

Short version: No, no, no. Fight dishonesty with honest arguments, not dishonest ones.  (Good call, misterd; it's a bit less catchy now, but accuracy > brevity.  That's why I hate so many bumper stickers.)