PC Gamers: Second Class Citizens??

[Shinobi-san]

Scisca said:

Piracy on PC is a constant, piracy on consoles is a variable. You say that lack of piracy on current consoles is an important factor. I say that it's not, because previous consoles were cracked, current are not and despite this change... there is no change. So the fact that there is no piracy on current gen means nothing. Cannot make it any simpler to you. The fact that now you can't play pirated games on consoles resulted in no change.

But if you just came here to state the fact that "there is piracy on PC" and leave it at that, then sorry, I though you were trying to put some meat on it instead of stating the obvious "the sky is blue". Especially since you juxtaposed it with something that is currently new to the industry and is somewhat of a change.

Tachikoma said:

Scisca said:

I understand the costs are growing. Cool. I know that. But the bottom line is - has this influenced the situation of PC gamers? Has the release of secure consoles dealt a blow to the PC market? Was this a sudden gamechanger? The answer is NO. 

When a developer choses to "test the waters" with their title on console first, prior to bringing it to PC, for whatever reason, that directly impacts pc-only gamers.
When a developer or publisher discusses the simultanious release of a game on both PC and Console, a long discussion is had over the releasing timing, and the pros and cons of staggerng the release, since the availability of a PC version has the potential to impact console sales, if a gamer is faced with the option of paying $60 for a console game, or $30-40 for the PC version, or lastly, paying nothing and torrenting it, a large number will opt for the latter, each and every major publisher does research into piracy, both console and pc, either themselves or through contracted third parties, and the results of that research and can often does directly effect release timelines, planning and major directional tasks such as choosing to develop a pc version in-house of contracting third parties to handle the porting work.

Again, even when consoles last generation were ALL comprimised and piracy was possible on the Wii, 360 and PS3, the ratio of pirate versus paying player was significantly lower than that of the pirate versus paying player for PC, outlandishly so.

The issue of piracy on the PC is one of the major contributing factors to the reason WHY PC games are generally priced lower than their console counterparts, so trying to argue that piracy on pc and the lower piracy, or lack or piracy on consoles does not play a major role in developers and publishers choices for preferential treatment is just flat out broken logic.

The very fact that development teams and publishers hold meetings to conduct risk assesment for PC versions alone directly underlines the fact that piracy and the existance of a more secure console ecosystem does, definitely play a deciding role in how PC-only gamers are accomodated.

And really, if you'd STILL like to tell me otherwise, shoot me a PM because discussing this here is getting extremely boring.
And if possible, go sit in on an actual risk assetment meeting from a major publisher before doing so.

To be clear on that, don't expect further replies from me on the topic, i've far better things to do with my time.

"When", "if", "should", "may", "maybe", "what if". That's worthless as an argument, you are aware of that? Please be specific, list some exact imporant games that PC gamers are going to miss or you can spare descriptions of board meetings that all in all result in PCs getting the games. As a gamer I don't give jack if piracy causes devs to shed tears in their beds, as long as we get the games (I feel sorry as a human being obviously ). The fact and bottom line is - we are getting the games. There is no exodus. PC gets multiplats, PC gets great exclusives. Moreover, PC versions are far and away the supreme ones, so devs are putting the extra effort into the PC versions. So really, nice stories, but again - this has no weight in the face of the stone cold facts. I get it that you're emotionally involved, but to gamers it means nothing if devs lose sleep on piracy - I get games just like console gamers do, so I'm not influenced the slightest. I don't need to see how a sausage is being made... If games suddenly start skipping PC, like they had sometimes in previous gen, if PC wasn't getting DLCs, etc. then you'd be onto something.

Again, I know there is piracy on PC. There was piracy on previous gen consoles. There is no piracy on current gen. Piracy on PC is greater than on prev gen. These things are obvious, aren't debatable and thus aren't really worth talking about. What's worth talking about are the consequences. The OP tries to imply there has recently been a change for the worse for PC gamers. You said that piracy vs no piracy currently is an important factor here. I disagree with both statements. PC piracy is a constant, devs are well accustomed to it and this alone can't have caused a change in the market. In fact I personally believe PC is experiencing a rebirth and will be more important than previous gen.

BTW. All these cries about piracy and PC market not being viable make the indie scene, Gabe and guys at Blizzard laugh their butts off...

I dont think they laugh their butts off...they've come up with plans and means to avoid piracy from killing them.

Almost all of Blizzards recent games require an internet connection to enjoy properly. If piracy wasnt a concern then diablo 3 would not have needed online. Hearthstone and Heroes of the Storm would have had a local version, but they dont. This is all to combat piracy and have some sort of reliance on the server.

Valve is the same, valve has built an entire platform to combat this and have prices that make it a viable alternative to those that dont want to pirate. Not to mention, all of Valves games require and internet connection and are focused on multiplayer. Dota 2 similarly doesnt have a local version to the dismay of original dota players.

Piracy on PC is huge and i think it does play a role when publishers decide to port late or not port at all etc.  It also plays a role in actual game design as we see with games like DOTA 2 an Diablo 3.