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Angelv577 on 15 April 2015
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sc94597 said:
Angelv577 said:
sc94597 said:
Angelv577 said:

And you think nintendo expectations are lower than sega, for all we know, their expectations could be larger than sega.  Even if bayo 2 was cheaper to make than the first one, it couldn't be that much different and again, the game was overtracked in US.  Right now it should be at 500k at most because it could be overtracked in Europe as well, and by the looks of it, the legs are horrible at this point so the chance to reach 1 million is very unlikely.  Like I said before, if nintendo asked 250k sales for a game like fire emblem that doesn't look demanding at all, you know that 500k or 700k is too low by nintendo standards for a game like bayo considering the development costs behind it.  Nintendo doesn't like to break even, they mostly try to go for decent profit at minimum.

Nintendo, as a hardware manfuacturer, has extra benefits which Sega does not (as a third party publisher.) For starters, diversifying the software found on their hardware can lead to long term benefits in the sale of said hardware, and then, in turn, the sale of their software. Sega cares solely about profit maximization, and if there is a huge opportunity cost (even if they can make a profit off Bayonetta) they will not publish the game. 

The bolded is speculation. 

Underlined shows a lack of what induces costs in a game. Asset quality and number are the main determinations of whether or not a game will cost a lot. Fire-Emblem has animated cutscenes, and dozens of characters that need to be designed. Just because the graphics technology aren't pushing the boundaries does not mean the game is cheap to make. Bayonetta, on the otherhand, had assets already designed, and likely also had a fully functioning engine which the developer (Platinum games) utilized. The costs of HD development were already subsidized by Sega with the first entry. You don't know the development costs, so stop acting like you do. 

1. 1st parapragh.  that's great and all but don't make sound like for that reason alone, there's a huge bridge of profitability between both version because I doubt that is the case.  Again, it didn't push any hardware, obviously the game sold mostly to some niche nintendo fans looking for other type of games. 

2. Sorry but your second paragraph is just more excuses to make it look like the game was cheap to make.  fire emblem is still a 3DS game that is supposed to be much cheaper than an HD game.  If the game like bayo used recycled assets that doesn't mean the game went for overproduction value to peanut value, the game like that still cost a significant amount and thus requiring a decent amount of return and again, the game didn't sell nowhere near to what vgchartz is showing and it's not showing any legs whatsoever.  Taking into account the difference in development costs between bayo 1 and 2 doesn't offset the low amount of sales the game has. 

Sorry but all i see is more excuses to the low sales and trying to justified it with "considering this or that" wont change that fact.

1. The game doesn't have to be a system seller to help push hardware. Most gamers (besides the fanatics on forums) buy consoles after a library has become unique, numerous, and diversified. A diversified library sustains momentum. 

2. Excuses or am I actually analyzing the situation much more deeply than you have? HD development eliminates the ability to produce low-budget games  that have a chance to sell well yes, but it doesn't magically make A/AA/AAA games more expensive. These games already had high quality assets and a lot of asset variety at SD resolutions. It doesn't matter if you are paying your artists, programmers, and game designers $60,000 /yr to build an HD game or $60,000 /yr to build an SD game if the game requires a new engine, optimization, unique assets, unique marketing, etc, etc. Either way you are paying said employees their same salary. You can't just say, Fire Emblem is on the 3DS and Bayonetta 2 is on the Wii U, therefore Bayonetta 2's budget >>> Fire Emblem. For starters you are ignoring the fact that Fire-Emblem retails for $40 and Bayonetta for $60. 

The question I have for you though: if individual software profit maximization is the only thing important for Nintendo why don't they just keep developing Mario, Pokemon, Animal Crossing, Super Smash Bros, and Mario Kart instead of niche games like Bayonetta, Pikmin, and even Metroid? Obviously library diversity is an important factor for sustaining console sales and momentum.

1.  Even though I don't think it manage to push any hardware in any significant way, that was not the point at hand.  The point at hand is that the sales of the game is very low IMO judged by not entering in the top 10 of the october NPD list, any information whatsoever by nintendo regarding to the game and some leak about the game selling around 70k in the months of october.  This is all I was arguing.

2.  I don't know much about the process of development but I do have an idea based of how the industry had behave since the HD era.   I do know that most of development costs goes for salary to employees but also know that HD games takes more time and resources than an SD game.  Yeah they  reused assets but you make sound like it's a copy and paste thing and thus making the game much much cheaper.  If you can show me any evidence that shows the huge difference in costs between a game that started from scratch vs. one that reused assets, please enlight me.  Also even though bayo 2 reused asset doesn't mean there weren't any complication expected on the game.  After all Wii U is a new hardware for platinum, add to that optimization.  You  just talk like they were fine because they reused and everything went smoothly witout taking into account complication that came along during development.  I haven't seen a case of profitability for game like bayo at 500k other than indies. 

Look at a game like COD, a game that is always reusing asset for both offline and online, do you think that by now the production cost has been very low just because they manage to decrease some time in the development process. 

" Fire Emblem is on the 3DS and Bayonetta 2 is on the Wii U, therefore Bayonetta 2's budget >>> Fire Emblem"  I know that's not how it works but I also know bayo 2 is an HD game, it require a decent amount of employees to finish a game on schedule.  Although the difference in price between fire emblem just tell me as well that the expected return for a game like bayo 2 is higher than a 3DS game, otherwise they will be priced accordingly.

3.  obviously the decision to fund a game like bayo 2 was determine way before wii U was released.  I'm sure they didn't expected the kind of sales that Wii U is having.  They saw an opportunity there, I cant blame them for doing that, after all it's an investment and sometimes you have to make risk but you can't win it all.  The question that I have for you, why there isn't any game like bayo 2 announced for the system, can we expect more games like that the rest of the gen for Wii U?, very unlikely.  If games like metroid or other nintendo franchises hasn't been announced and have a legacy with their fans, don't expect a game like bayo to be announced for the system.