| thechinesenoob said: Like I said I do agree that SSB4 has a very young meta and has lots of room to develop I just hope that as it grows, it becomes faster and more exciting, rather than slower and more defensive like Brawl did. That's also one of the main fears of many of the top players in the SSB4 competitive scene. In regards to balance, SSB4 currently does have a lot more viable characters than Melee (probably about 15 characters are viable, though how many can win a major is debatable), but Melee is not only fox vs fox just like SSB4 isn't just diddy vs diddy. For example, among the top 7 players in Melee last year there are 2 foxes, a falco/marth, a peach, a jiggs, a sheik/marth, and a pikachu player. Amsa also placed 5th this year at APEX playing yoshi, a character most had believed to be awful. Percentagewise the viable characters for both games are probably pretty equal. SSB4 has a much larger cast so you will definitely get more diversity, but Melee is not nearly as imbalanced as people are saying. I disagree with the statement that Melee is a relic of the past. Maybe you can say as a game it is super old, has outdated graphics, controls etc (I would disagree with that too, but that's just my opinion). But as an esport it is larger than ever. APEX 2015 hit 1000 Melee entrants and EVO is expected to surpass that quite easily. The 5 largest tournaments in history have happened in the past year and a half and the smallest of those (Big House 4, 570 entrants) had about 200 more than any events from 2009 to 2013 besides EVO 2013. I'm not sure what the attendance was like at the MLG 2006 or for Brawl at MLG 2010 but I'm willing to bet they were both under 200 despite being the largest tournaments of their time for Melee and Brawl respectively. SSB4 as a newer game than Melee definitely has a larger potential audience, but if the meta remains like it currently is (again I really hope it changes to be more exciting) I don't think it will realize that full potential. Many of the top smash figures have already stated their disdain for SSB4 and while I don't necessarily agree with them, it will likely stop many Melee players from transitioning to a game that is honestly a lot more different than Melee than people realize. For perfect pivoting, it is actually a technique in Melee, it is just not used much due to it's high difficulty (one frame window) and very situational use https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_aqH9sJnbU There are some ATs in SSB4 that aren't in Melee such as dodge cancelling and a new form of autocanceling. Also yeah like I said the documentary didn't really do Brawl justice as it was made specifically for Melee, however it is still very interesting and helped grow the competitive smash community basically exponentially *edit: spelling |
Most of the top Smash heads are dedicated Melee players so you can't really take their opinion with as much weight, it's like in SF how many of the old disappear as they can't adjust and are replaced, those players themselves showed disdain for newer games, if you even look at SF only a select amount of players ever make the transition to newer games and many end up just playing casually as they're replaced by newer faces, trust me the faces of Smash now will be different to the faces of Smash in 10 years with only some OGs about. It's why the meta game itself is what determines outcome, Smash 4 is more agrressive then Brawl which was heavily defence based which is why the latter slowed down as it was figured out while having that worry with Smash 4 is jumping the gun as it's meta is more diverse and matches seem to be more down to the player's style. In Apex an Olimar/Rosalina made the grand finals, while Pacman, Mac, Sonic, Sheik/Falcon, Duck Hunt made it there with only 2 Diddys, non of these characters in top 8 share movesets or fighting styles either which highlights the diversity in the match ups.
Like it or not Melee is a relic of the past now which isn't a bad thing as SFII was still in EVO when TS was prominent, the newer generation of Smash won't just have Melee in their faces as the symbol Smash the will be a competitive alternative with a different approach and meta and no documentary is going to alter things this time. Most fighting games are larger then ever when their replacement comes along it's happening with SF again right now.
Perfect Pivots work a bit differently in Smash 4 to Melee, they retain the same property but alow wave dash like movements (Fox's in 12:02 is scary) and they're 3 frames in S4, just check the link below, now combine this with some of the newer techniques that are unique to S4 and you have quite a way to go before the meta is even close to developed in S4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zJ_ZzAvSFis
Edit:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=spHWz-9F7cQ , Falco specific mechanic so people are learning.
