| ofrm1 said: Of course it is personal preference; just like everything you said in defense of Smash 4 is your personal preference. The fact that you use conditional phrases like "seems to be", "reminds me", or "I find" just means that you're giving your perspective of what you think about the game, just like I was. No one is questioning that the combos are bread and butter. But the entirety of their combo-list is bread and butter combos. It's stagnant and results in boring, predictable matches. The only diversity that Smash 4 has over previous games is a larger roster. Honestly, the edge-hogging issue is so problematic that I'm surprised you're even attempting to debate it. All you have to do is watch the Apex top 8 on youtube and you can see how not being able to edge-hog draws the fights out and makes them some of the most mind-boggingly boring matches imaginable. Saying "the fights only last longer if they decide to play defensive" doesn't really mean anything. It's like the invisible hand of the free market; if the system incentivizes people to act greedy, then they will act greedy because it's the most efficient way to their goal of making money. The same thing here. If the system rewards defensive play and turtling, which it does, then they will play defensive and turtle. A pro player isn't suddenly going to risk thousands of dollars because they want to have fun with the game during a tournament. They're going to do what nets them the greatest advantage against their opponent. It's a risk assessment. The lack of edge guarding is the major culprit here, in addition to the usual air-dodge mechanics. Also, your reasoning for the edge game makes no sense for two reasons. Firstly, it's just a fact that it's not an even situation. Not to overly-analyze the game's physics and compare it with real life, but why should it be an even situation when someone is on the stage and someone is off the stage? If I'm knocked off a cliff by someone and trying to climb back up, it's not an even situation. My opponent clearly has the advantage because he's standing on solid ground and can more easily prevent me from getting back up. Secondly, it's rewards bad playing. The person who is off the stage made a mistake. They should be punished, not helped. This is what I was talking about by comparing it to Street Fighter IV; it rewards people who make mistakes when it should be the other way around. This is what you see in casual games where the game's mechanics help even the playing field when it's clear that one person is better than the other. As far as Melee is concerned, you are in the minority. APEX 2015 was the largest Melee tournament of all time, and it beat out Smash 4 entrants by 200 people. The crowd was more excited than I've seen them in five years. It is quite clear that the competitive community has spoken and chosen to stick with a 14 year old game, as opposed to one that isn't even six months old. Popular games don't become competitive games. Games with high skillsets and high chances for clutch upsets become competitive games. This is why Brawl was largely ignored and why Smash 4 will also never be a major player in the competitive scene. Once again, you seem to be under some assumption that because I am critical of Smash 4, that somehow it makes it objectively bad. It doesn't. It's just my subjective opinion. It is, however, not a game that pro players will embrace and you can expect it to lose interest in the coming years as the fanfare dies down. Also, I find it rather odd that you'd question my criticism of the game's tendency to use stale, safe combos repeatedly as just something you'd expect to see in a new game, yet you don't extend that same reasoning to your example of winning a tournament with Luigi, which is obviously because the tiers have not settled and the community has not found the fox, marth, or sheik of Smash 4. When they do, you can expect the same usual suspects to pop up at first place and second place. That said, reasonable people can disagree, and it's obvious we do. C'est la vie. |
Again you've said nothing that really backs your stance, only you don't like this and that, firstly the entire combo list is not bread and butter that's a flat out lie as players like Zero on their channels have shown an array of combos, do you even know why people come up with bread and butter combos? It's because they're the most viable across most situations even SF has this.
Your constant harping on about the change in edge guarding has said nothing to counter any point, only complained that it's harder to KO someone which means the new set up is doing it's job. Not only that PixelPerfect posted an example of how to approach dealing with the edge, if the player who is off the stage should be punished then it should be by the equal efforts of another player trying to keep them off, now players need to up their game off stage rather just grabbing a ledge and build a meta around keeping a player off something few players have learned yet. In Smash 4 it's an even situation to make things more competitive and keeps the player on stage on their toes as well. Like it or not defensive play is part of the game and opens up new match ups even many of the fighting games out have this, it's like playing mech in Starcraft it's an option and if a player decides to use that option then so be it it's not strike against the game.
Your Apex comment is hilariously flawed, the so called community has spoken yet only 200 more entrants then a game that only came out 3 months a go and is being figured out, you're the classic example of what people are talking about in this thread, the typical Melee fan who doesn't want any change and is quick to jump the gun. Melee's mechanics took years to figure out and master and you think Smash 4 won't be the same because it takes a new approach. I question your criticisms because as subjective as they are when you post them I can pull you on what you post and what I see as flawed, if you don't like it then don't post simple as that. You harp on about the tier list not being figured out yet bang on about the mechanics which themselves have not been figured out and mastered, Luigi and Olimar beat characters like Sheik and Diddy who are right now considered strong and viable look at your fellow Melee fans screaming at the top of their lungs about Diddy in Smash 4, in fact the are examples of that in this very thread.
