"There's a rift at the heart of the Smash Bros scene"

[PixelPerfect]

ofrm1 said:

Wyrdness said:

Nothing you've said in this post backs your statement if anything it's just you using your own preference as fact, I follow multiple fighting games and tbh of all Smash games  Smash IV seems to be the most fighting game like. You say the's no wave dashing but ignore how much more significant Perfect Pivots are in the new game to the point that it will replace wave dashing in the game and is only just being explored, you're complaining about players using the same combos when that's what happens in games early on, in fact games like SFIV tend to have the same combos used over and over it's known as bread and butter, you use the mose viable and efficient combos. Smash 4 has diverse match ups and more strategic situations from what I've seen in tournaments.

Your complaint against the removal of edge hogging reminds me of  Third Strike players crying when Parrys were removed, it makes the edge game more complex because you have to put more effort in defending it and preventing your opponent to get back on stage were before the player trying to get back on stage had to put more effort in the situation now it's equal. The fights only become long if a player decides to play defensive, I've seen many fights in tournaments which ended pretty quickly the game being slower then Melee has little to do with this, it's simply because the meta is more diverse then previous games and more styles of play can be used.

Your last paragraph is purely preference, I find Melee to be like MVC3 were it can be exciting but you see more of the same in the majority of the matches which in itself can become boring. Smash 4 I found had a diverse array of match ups and differing styles of play, the was an ultra aggressive Olimar at Apex, just because it's not to your liking it doesn't make it bad, A Luigi player won a big tournament just a few weeks back I'd be surprised if that happens in a big Melee tournament.

Of course it is personal preference; just like everything you said in defense of Smash 4 is your personal preference. The fact that you use conditional phrases like "seems to be", "reminds me", or "I find" just means that you're giving your perspective of what you think about the game, just like I was.

No one is questioning that the combos are bread and butter. But the entirety of their combo-list is bread and butter combos. It's stagnant and results in boring, predictable matches. The only diversity that Smash 4 has over previous games is a larger roster.

Honestly, the edge-hogging issue is so problematic that I'm surprised you're even attempting to debate it. All you have to do is watch the Apex top 8 on youtube and you can see how not being able to edge-hog draws the fights out and makes them some of the most mind-boggingly boring matches imaginable. Saying "the fights only last longer if they decide to play defensive" doesn't really mean anything. It's like the invisible hand of the free market; if the system incentivizes people to act greedy, then they will act greedy because it's the most efficient way to their goal of making money. The same thing here. If the system rewards defensive play and turtling, which it does, then they will play defensive and turtle. A pro player isn't suddenly going to risk thousands of dollars because they want to have fun with the game during a tournament. They're going to do what nets them the greatest advantage against their opponent. It's a risk assessment. The lack of edge guarding is the major culprit here, in addition to the usual air-dodge mechanics.

Also, your reasoning for the edge game makes no sense for two reasons. Firstly, it's just a fact that it's not an even situation. Not to overly-analyze the game's physics and compare it with real life, but why should it be an even situation when someone is on the stage and someone is off the stage? If I'm knocked off a cliff by someone and trying to climb back up, it's not an even situation. My opponent clearly has the advantage because he's standing on solid ground and can more easily prevent me from getting back up. Secondly, it's rewards bad playing. The person who is off the stage made a mistake. They should be punished, not helped. This is what I was talking about by comparing it to Street Fighter IV; it rewards people who make mistakes when it should be the other way around. This is what you see in casual games where the game's mechanics help even the playing field when it's clear that one person is better than the other.

As far as Melee is concerned, you are in the minority. APEX 2015 was the largest Melee tournament of all time, and it beat out Smash 4 entrants by 200 people. The crowd was more excited than I've seen them in five years. It is quite clear that the competitive community has spoken and chosen to stick with a 14 year old game, as opposed to one that isn't even six months old. Popular games don't become competitive games. Games with high skillsets and high chances for clutch upsets become competitive games. This is why Brawl was largely ignored and why Smash 4 will also never be a major player in the competitive scene.

Once again, you seem to be under some assumption that because I am critical of Smash 4, that somehow it makes it objectively bad. It doesn't. It's just my subjective opinion. It is, however, not a game that pro players will embrace and you can expect it to lose interest in the coming years as the fanfare dies down.

Also, I find it rather odd that you'd question my criticism of the game's tendency to use stale, safe combos repeatedly as just something you'd expect to see in a new game, yet you don't extend that same reasoning to your example of winning a tournament with Luigi, which is obviously because the tiers have not settled and the community has not found the fox, marth, or sheik of Smash 4. When they do, you can expect the same usual suspects to pop up at first place and second place.

That said, reasonable people can disagree, and it's obvious we do. C'est la vie.

Not saying that you can't dislike Smash 4 but I don't think this is a "bread and butter combo."

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMuYDCiXEb0