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MTZehvor on 15 January 2015
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ToraTiger said:
MTZehvor said:
I'll take this in turn:

1) Opinion, I suppose. I'll agree I wasn't a huge fan of Bowser Jr. getting in, but I thought the additions of Shulk, Duck Hunt (who I initially despised and eventually turned out to really enjoy), Mega Man, Villager, and Robin/Lucina definitely made up for it.

2) Let me address this first by saying that one character from each franchise was simply a "clone" character, meaning not as much development time had to be spent on them. The reason Lucina/Dark Pit were chosen was because their moveset would be fairly easy to replicate. It's not as if their spot in the game was given to them over an entirely new character with a new moveset; they're essentially a bonus.

Secondly, I quite like FE, so shup you.

In all seriousness Uprising and Awakening were fairly recent titles and so the characters being in that game likely owe their appearance to that. I do think you're dismissing the popularity of the two games, though; they both sold pretty well for 3DS titles not named Mario, Zelda, or Animal Crosssing.

3) Define "innovation," because there's quite a bit new to Smash 4; 8 player Smash, an actually functioning online system (which you may or may not even consider innovation), overhauled classic mode and event mode, whatever smash tour is worth, etc. If you simply mean from the actual gameplay in battles itself, I'd still argue there's a fair amount of innovation to be had there, at least for a fighting game on it's fourth installment. But the ledge mechanic was overhauled, perfect pivoting is now a thing where it wasn't in Brawl (at least to my knowledge), and many of the characters themselves have undergone significant changes. Perhaps more to the point, though, a fighting game in its fourth installment probably isn't looking to make many "drastic" changes; it's rather simply looking to fine tune what it's doing already. You can argue as to whether it's doing a good job of it, but at this point Smash is less about major innovation and more about trying to get down what it's already doing.

4) I'll agree with this

5) I have no idea where you got the notion that Earthbound is far more popular than Fire Emblem, but whatever. I do wish Ice Climbers had been left in, but that was due to not wanting to jiff the 3DS version (a rather stupid reason imo). Calling Wolf a completely original character is nothing short of hilarious, however.

In short, some characters got left out; but just in terms of a franchises' popularity now, the cuts certainly make since. Uprising was a few years ago, Awakening was less than two years ago, the last Star Fox game was in the DS era, and the last Earthbound game was before the 21st century.

6) I didn't like it much either, but so what? It's a totally optional feature, and only happens on one stage and only if you taunt repeatedly for it

7) I guess? Trophies are bad? I feel like this is akin to complaining about the title screen not looking spiffy enough or something.

8) Stickers were cut to make room for custom moves, and the character stats are far more balanced than stickers. You can actually use them in play without simply breaking a character

9) I'm actually pretty certain the Wii U has more; Wii U has 46 (47 whenever Miiverse comes out), and Brawl has 41. Some stages are meh, I'll agree, but I think some are quite well done. Opinion's opinion, I suppose.

10) Subspace was garbage; replacing it with actually focusing on balancing the roster and making the online worth half of a chocolate biscuit was a much better decision.

 

1.       Lucina could have been an alt like Female Robin why did she have to have a slot?   For fucks sake

2.        That makes sense, however, I feel as though if you’re making something of the caliber of Smash you are practically required to add x amount of characters for advertising and gabber (Example; You can now play as X many characters! ), which seems to me that Sakurai couldn’t reach that quota and threw a few  clones and weak characters in to make it seem like a large rooster.  Doing tricks like separating Zelda and sheik and Samus and Zero suit also was a part of this I assume.   I also like FE and it’s one of my favorite SRPGs, but seriously 4 is over kill.  I think Ike should have been cut if they are doing the cutting thing like they did to Lucas, Wolf, Snake ect and made Lucina an alt and kept Robin.  Only 2 slots, but really 4 characters for the fans.   As for the sales, there aren’t getting more for including 4 FE and 3 KI, but they are limiting their appeal and alienating old school Nintendo fans.

3.       I don’t consider online an innovation.  In should have been there in Brawl and it’s still too flawed imo to be one of the brightest things about the game.  Classic and Solo are overhauled but still aren’t very interesting to me or anyone really =/.  Event modes are old modes so IDK.  The ledge mechanic is new, but like I said before a lot of the mechanics in melee and some in brawl were removed (Gliding, z-dashing, Directional influence ect. ) it’s more like they were just trying to make it as simplified as they could, without making it a press A to fight game.

4.       Yep.

5.       EarthBound clearly has a fan base that is larger.  Look at how well the rerelease sold on Wii U, at its amped up price.  Not to mention they haven’t had a stateside game since the 90s, where as fire Emblem has had time and time again to increase it’s fans and popularity and only recently hit it lucky with the new game and it’s anime-equse characters and dating sim functions.  Also how is Wolf not original?  Besides his smash he is nothing like Fox or Falco.  I’d say Ike, Luigi, Gannondorf, and Toon Link are far less original yet they’ve stayed for more installments.   Don’t think 4 FE chars is going to make the sales of FE or Smash increase.  I mean Fire Emblem has had free Smash advertising since Melee and the franchise is still niche at best.   Cutting characters based on popularity makes no sense, Duck Hunt hasn’t made a game since the 80s, and Megaman  is dormant as fuck =/

6.       Yeah, but the thing is it replaced something that was far cooler and funnier.   Snake’s codec’s was a far better and more thought out Easter egg.

7.       It’s not just that, its Nintendo not putting in the same effort they did 6 years ago.  It says a lot to the overall quality of the game as a whole. 

8.       Yes I know the stats are more balanced, but why replace the icons with generic orange, blue and green tiles when they could have added more Nintendo lore to the game.   As it stands, this game feels more like a stripped smash bros game than a true homage to Nintendo’s history. 

9.       Brawl has more new ones,  a lot of them are ones from brawl.

 

10.   I doubt it took any effort to make the online better.  Online like this existed since the 90s and the Wii U is definitely up for the job.  But I hardly count this game as balanced, there are still plenty of useless characters like Olimar and Zelda, and OP ones like Diddy Kong, Little Mac and Sheik.  I can’t see how you honestly think that an usable online mode in 2015 is worth the removal of a fan service cut scenes and a whole story mode. 

@Lucina: They could do that, I guess. What would be the point, though? It's not like another character would be taking her spot; Sakurai went over this repeatedly in an interview. Basically what you're complaining about is Nintendo putting in a little extra effort to make a slightly different version of a character that literally cost nothing from the final game to put in.

@Innovation: This is entirely my point, though. You're welcome to say that you don't like the changes, but I think it's unfair to say there aren't any changes. Also DI is in Smash 4 as of the most recent patch.

@Earthbound: Do we even have concrete sales numbers? All I've heard is that it was the 3rd best selling game on the eShop when it released...which I guess is sort of impressive.

Wolf's not original because all of his special moves are simply altered versions of Fox's. He's certainly much more unique than other clone characters, but he's by no means original.

Snake's codec was nice, but it's such a tietiary item that again I think complaining about this is on par with complaining about the voice acting on the menu screen or something.

I don't even have an analogy for complaining about a lack of stickers on the stats changers. This is such a nitpick that I can't even begin to compare it to anything. 

Because Nintendo sucks at online, and because, as mentioned before, Subspace was garbage. I want a well functioning fighting game that is enjoyable to play, not another sad attempt at making Smash Bros into Final Fight or something.

And finally, I really don't want to sound like the elitist Smash player...but your assessment of characters is horribly, horribly wrong. Olimar is by no means useless, and is actually quite dangerous in capable hands. Little Mac is certainly not OP; his recovery game is terrible and he is gimped extremely easily, even with Smash 4's new ledge hogging mechanics. The game is far more balanced than you're making it out to be.