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RolStoppable said:
zorg1000 said:

Well what do u suggest they do instead? Chase after the mainstream AAA crowd that PS/XB own or chase the casual crowd that iOS/Android now own?

I know u are a fan of the Wii/DS but do u honestly think they can replicate that type of success again among casual gamers? Yes, Nintendo made some big mistakes at the beginning of this generation but even if they released a $250 console, using an updated Wii Remote and focused on games like Wii Sports/Wii Fit, would we really be seeing drastically better sales? Or if they released a $150 handheld with games like Brain Training/Nintendogs being the main focus, would we be seeing sales more similar to the DS?

Maybe ever so slightly better, but for the most part no, the main demographic for these type of games no longer wants to buy dedicated hardware to play these $30-60 games. They now have smartphones, devices they own regardless of gaming, that offer 100's or possibly even 1000's of games for free. These devices also have many health related apps and education based games so there is very little incentive for anyone to buy a console/handheld to play these type of games.

I'm pretty sure that u agree with me that it's a horrible idea for Nintendo to make a high-powered, $400 console to compete with PS5/XB4 and try winning over 3rd parties and mainstream AAA crowd (if they make a console with similar specs as PS4/XB1, they are essentially making another Wii U so they would have to go one step ahead of that with their next console).

Going for the casual crowd is a dead-end, going for the mainstream crowd is a dead-end, both of these demographics are happy with their current offerings and Nintendo would have a mighty struggle and probably lose a ton of money trying to win these crowds over. The best option to me seems to be capitalize on the 80 million or so lifetime install base for 3DS+Wii U (might be more like 50-70m when u take into account people who own both devices or bought multiple versions of 3DS) and release a shit load of high quality 1st party titles that can sell very well with these numbers.

Games like Mario platformers, Pokemon, Mario Kart, Smash Bros are all capable of selling 10 million or more, Donkey Kong, Legend of Zelda, Luigi's Mansion, Animal Crossing are capable of selling over 5 million, Mario spinoffs, Kirby, Metroid, Kid Icarus, Fire Emblem, Pikmin, Yoshi, Xenoblade, etc are capable of selling 1-3 million on a 50-70 million install base. Then u also have some Japanese 3rd party titles like Monster Hunter, Dragon Quest, Youkai Watch which are capable of selling strong numbers and dozens of kid-friendly western 3rd party titles each year which bring in profits for Nintendo.

There are also some other things I think Nintendo can do to bring in strong profits. Continue to support and expand Amiibo with figurines and cards. They can use Quality of Life to try attracting the fitness/education crowd they had last gen. A $50-100 children's educational tablet with software based around Nintendo ip similar to what Leapfrog/Vtech have could be successful and get young children familiar with their ip so they become fans of their games later on, they can also allow Amiibo support for this. Various inexpensive health/fitness devices like they have already talked about could be successful, for example they could release an updated, rebranded, standalone Wii Fit type device for something like $70-100, it probably won't sell nearly as well as Wii Fit did but it could still be a moderate success and be profitable. Continue to build strong relations with indies to make the eShop more comparable to the App Store/Google Play. Make the Virtual Console a big deal again, even better than it was on Wii and release an optional subscription fee, something like $50/year gives unlimited access to the VC, this could bring in alot of money for Nintendo.

Overall make their dedicated hardware appeal to their current userbase, build up Amiibo, eShop & Virtual Console to bring in strong profits and use Quality of Life to attract children/parents with health/fitness/education based devices. Nintendo doesn't need to sell like Wii/DS in order to have strong software sales and big profits.

Your assumption that the "casual crowd" doesn't want to buy dedicated hardware anymore is solely based on the sales of the Wii U and 3DS. But these systems suck ass, having hardware features that don't come anywhere close to justifying their higher price tags compared to the previous generation on top of being features that the market clearly doesn't want (so price cuts won't change the trajectory). The only redeeming quality of these systems are Nintendo games, otherwise they would have been dead in the water within a year of launch. Your analysis is a lot like concluding that nobody wants to buy Super Mario Bros. anymore, based on sales of the Nintendo 64 and GameCube. It's pretty hard to sell things that don't exist in proper form or don't exist at all.

Also, iOS and Android own nothing. When has there ever been a complete control over consumers in the video and computer game space? Additionally, playing on one device doesn't rule out playing on another device. Furthermore, it's simply not feasible for iOS and Android to completely satisfy someone like the Wii Sports fan because there is nothing comparable on those devices. And that right there is the catch and the reason for Nintendo success or failure; the Wii U is a rejection of the Wii spirit, highlighted by the different standard controllers for each console. The Wii could thrive regardless of what other companies did, because it couldn't be substituted. On the other hand, the Wii U is a worse PlayStation or Xbox thanks to its lackluster third party support. It doesn't matter that the Wii U is backwards compatible with Wii controllers, because everyone with half a brain knows that games won't be tailor-made for the Wii Remote in such a setup. But even if such games were made, it's outright insulting that people are forced to buy a new console for games that could have all been on the Wii they already own. That's why Nintendo gets the middle finger from consumers.

Your suggested best course of action is a trap that businesses commonly fall in, because it looks like the safest path. Focusing on your best consumers isn't a bad idea on the surface, but ultimately you are cutting off the pipeline for new consumers while your existing pool will most likely shrink with each passing year. You know, that's pretty much the reason why there is a continual decline in home console sales for Nintendo, because they kept going down that safe path. The exception to that trend is the Wii, but it's an irrefutable fact that for that console Nintendo took deliberate steps to open up the pipeline for new consumers.

So my suggestion is the creation of devices that can't be substituted (this includes with each other) and are easy to understand. You get the existing consumers on board by making sequels to established IPs, you get consumers of other devices on board due to the unique appeal of your hardware, you have the potential to create new gamers because now people might finally see something that interests them. Now how does Nintendo accomplish this?

In the handheld space, Nintendo is the only one left in town after Sony's exit. So by being a portable gaming device with physical buttons Nintendo is already in a unique position. What they have to do though is eliminating unnecessary things; something like stereoscopic 3D is a big no-no. And, of course, they have to put out software that possesses traits that can draw in new consumers. Being the only one doesn't mean much when there are no fresh new IPs.

In the home console space, Sony and Microsoft are very predictable. Dual analog controllers, gritty games, online multiplayer focus. The only other thing to keep in mind for Nintendo is that they have to avoid self-sabotage. There is an abundance of sales data, so they should have a good idea of what type of software is able to gain traction and reach beyond the consumer base they currently have and what type of software is time-consuming to make, yet doesn't shift hardware.

I guess maybe it seems like casuals don't want dedicated hardware because Nintendo made some mistakes but I honestly cannot see Wii U/3DS doing a whole lot better if they basically just made Wii 2 & DS 2, would Wii Sports/Wii Fit/Brain Training/Nintendogs have the same impact as they did back in 2005-2009. Wii/DS benefitted alot from being the right products at the right time, they had virtually no competition for this demographic. If smart devices were around back in 2005/2006 then Wii/DS likely would not have seen nearly as much success as they did.

It's not impossible, but it's very very unlikely Nintendo can win back this crowd in massive numbers, it's just hard to compete with free games on devices everybody already owns. Wii wasn't a massive success because people thought those were the hith quality games ever, they were successful because they were simple pick up and play games that were fun in a group setting. Paying  $200+ on hardware and $50-60 software is too much for these people now.

U didn't really explain tho what u think Nintendo should do next-gen, ur being very vague and just saying make hardware that is easy to understand and new ip that can draw in new consumers. How do they do this? What type of games do u believe will bring in this audience? Mini game compilations and fitness games won't do it for the console, that's been played out and is no longer new. Educational games/pet simulators on handhelds? Nope, once again played out and no longer new. Same goes for motion controls and touch screen gaming, they aren't new and every device has them, so what can Nintendo do to make their hardware/software seem new and fresh again to this demographic?



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.