o_O.Q said:
how are you going to stop some men from treating women like sexual objects without restricting their freedoms? do you not understand that this what the ultimate goal is? to exchange freedom for safety?
"You don't need the state to do that, it can be done by educating men."
You are deluded because you are not using logic your reasoning is contingent on what makes you feel good you do not seem to be able to acknowledge that people will choose to do things that harm others despite what they are taught i have done this myself when i put my interests above those of someone else and i'm sure you and every single person here has done so
"Same idea is behind most civil rights movements."
Are you speaking of what happened with blacks, for example? no that's a different situation altogether, what happened there is that they were basically given access to rights they should have had on the basis of being human the same happened with women when feminism actually had a proper goal with regards to the emanicipation of women feeling safe is not a right, it is a condition that each individual must take steps to secure for themselves what i'll telling you is that the only steps available for you to feel safe at all times is to leverage the power of the state to strip away rights and funny enough regardless of whether you acknowledge it or not this to an extent is the current goal of feminism
i've had the revelation recently that feminism and socialism are tied to each other in that the goal of both is to give the government as much power over the people as possible in exchange for services that keep people safe, provide jobs etc |
There is no such thing as a "right on the basis of being human". Those are simply social constructs. There isn't anything inherent about humans that procludes any of us from living in subjugation or in anarchy. All rights are man made. Feeling safe isn't a right, but neither is anything else regardless of what society tells you. We create rights, because social morality and norms guide us to. By the same token, not wanting to be sexualized, catcalled, paid less, discriminated against in male dominated jobs and educational paths, and more aren't rights, they're simply social norms that most women push for. Not by legislation (I'm counting all the hardcore feminists who try) but by changing social norms through social pressure and education. I have met some of the crazy feminists who flip out when a guy holds the door open for them and that's nuts. Most women aren't looking for a reason to flip out over everything. We're just looking to morph social norms of gender behavior towards something more equitable.
