| darkknightkryta said: You're not understanding. I never said construction workers are paid terribly (They're not), the point I'm trying to make is that there's a place for everything. If you think only engineers should be paid highly then there shouldn't be any buildings cause they still have to be made. You say you understand everything has to be done, but only the poor should be doing it just shows how much of a horrible human being you're sounding right now. The other thing you're not understanding is that there's only so few engineering position, IT positions, management positions, etc. Do you have any idea how many people with degrees aren't in their fields? Hell look at Spurge who created this thread. Three degrees and, until he was promoted, was working night shifts at his Walmart. This is the biggest thing you're not understanding; there aren't enough jobs that keep people in middle class even if they have education. People are forced to work grocery or flip burgers because these are the only jobs for the majority of the population. Hell I have a computer science degree and just completed my education degree, I'm working at a grocery store stocking, triming produce. Hell when I came back after school the department's sales rose almost 10 grand weekly. I'm the direct cause of that, do you still think I shouldn't be compensated for it? One other thing you're missing that others have explained; is that wages have gone down compared to inflation. Not having a middle class is terrible for the economy, incase you haven't noticed, and most of the jobs that provided that class have gone over seas. So what would you have people do? Get a degree to not have a job after they finish university? Nurses do far more than any doctor does. There's actually a push here in Canada to let nurses prescribe more medication because they are that good(They recently got more power to do so). They're as needed as the doctors who cut people up, or diagnose. Why is there a huge pay discreprency of nurses vs doctors (Family doctors really, I understand you're point with surgeons) when nurses do what doctors can't? Should doctors get more? Of course, but there's a difference between paying a family doctor 300k a year vs 40k for a nurse. Same with your Don Tompson example. I don't think he should be paid that much more than his employees because, to be frank, he'd be unemployed flipping burgers for another company if it wasn't for his workers. Same with large corporations: hoarding money isn't helping anyone. There's something wrong when companies are posting billions of dollars in profits just to turn around and go on mass firing sprees and slash wages. My cousin can draw plans, he does them well, he just can't stamp. He wanted to get his electrical engineer degree, but he can't since he'd have to go back to school full time and that's not an option considering he has a family to support. |
#1 I guess you ignored the "adult legos" example I said, in relation to designing a building to be structurally sound. If you think basically looking at an instruction manual and following the instructions is equal to taking the time to figure out the instructions themselves, figuring out all the calculations, the physics behind buildings, factoring in the integrity with respect to the climate, etc. to make sure the building won't just collapse on itself, then you're crazy. Anybody can draw up something, and a construction worker could follow those instructions all the same. But one building would stand, the other would fall.
#2 "The poor" isn't some homogenous group that is being systematically oppressed. It's not like I said "the floors need to be mopped, but only the Mexicans should do it". It's not that "only the poor should be doing those jobs", it's that "if you do those jobs, you're going to be at or above the poverty line" which is what a minimum wage job is supposed to do. You're not entitled to higher pay just by virtue of having a job.
#3 I posted a link that showed that the jobs are out there. People just aren't acquiring the right skills. It's not enough to go to college and get educated...in philosophy (people can't just say "I have a college degree, so I'm qualified"). It's your job to see what kinds of jobs are in demand and pursue a goal in that direction. That said, said link said that that if all 3.6M jobs that are available right now were filled instantly, that would still leave 7.9M unemployed. "7.9M! Omg, see?! No jobs! Only so many IT positions, management positions!" But 7.9M unemployed would be a 5.6% unemployment rate, a rate similar to the one the US had in the 90s under Clinton. You know? When we had that big surplus because we were just churning out money due to productivity?
#4 If you can physically show what you've done and how it raised revenue (or $10k in profit weekly, maybe?) and give a plan as to how to keep that money coming in: yes, you should be compensated! Either by a demanding a raise or getting a promotion. If you came up with a plan that increases revenue, you should be managing that department. Revenue doesn't increase magically increase. If you've done something to concretely show that you're the direct cause of an increase of $10K sales weekly, obviously you doing something whoever is in charge of the department can't. A guy flipping burgers isn't going to cause McDonald's sales to rise. If he says "maybe we shoud do this, advertise that, and offer this", he has plans that use everybody in a manner that will increase revenue. Making plans that use everybody in order to increase productivity, revenue, etc. is a manager's job. YOU SHOULD BE THE MANAGER. Not the stockboy. Unless you think you've been stocking the food so much better than everyone else that people bought more produce???
#5 I'm assuming you haven't seen an above post of mine: I said I wasn't flat out against raising the minimum wage. Minimum wage should be tied to inflation. I'm against $15/hr (which is why I kept saying "they make more than $15/hr" when giving job examples in my prior post). It's arbitrary, and quite frankly, I don't even think people want it that high. They're just demanding it to be that high so that when there's a counteroffer of, say, $10.50, it'll look like they "compromised" or "tried, but everybody hates us and won't help us"....when that amount is actually all they need. About $10.10 is where it should actually be at, though, and I wouldn't have a problem with that.
#6 First off, first year nurses salary is around $52,000 and only goes up (a lot) as time goes on. Secondly, when someone is sick, they don't call the nurse. They call the doctor. Obviously the nurse doesn't do "just as much" when they aren't the ones people go to when they need help. Doctors go through so much more examination and training to allow them to prescribe medications. Nurses don't. You can't just say "they're that good" in order to allow them to do that. That's an emotional appeal. And if you're referring to only family doctors....the people who own private practices, run the business, etc. You seriously don't know why they make so much more? On top of being the doctor, they're the owner of a company and they do some hospital work! Most (strictly) hospital doctors are specialists in a certain area (cardiologist, anesthesiologist, neurosurgeon, etc). Do you know what it takes to be in those kinds of positions? Or do you think a paralegal should be paid the same as a lawyer?
#7 You think the guy running the company, manages financial decisions of the entire company, contracts the advertisers to make the product appealing, and much more.....shouldn't be paid that much more than the guy that says "Welcome to McDonald's, may I take your order?". Seriously, you've got to be crazy. But I've read something before about CEOs making 300 times the average (note: average) employee. Even if it was only 20x the lowest paid employee, with current minimum wage, that'd still be $300K+ a year. You mad about that? Or do you think it should be less. How much less should you be paid from the minimum wage worker, to run an entire business? $100K? $80K? If the discrepancy is that small, that means #1 promotions aren't gonna give you that much of a pay bump and #2 what's the incentive to move up if your ceiling is so low?
#8 Why would he have to go back to school full time? Can't take night courses at 3-6 credits a semester (or trimester)? My roommate (29 years old) has been in school for a while taking night courses (1 to 2 at a time) in Business Technology and Management, all the while working 40+ hours a week and paying for a house and a new car. Not the same as a family, but financially, it's doable (companies typically pay for your education, as long as your pursuing an education relevant to the company). He's been in school for a long time, but he's gonna get his Bachelor's soon. You don't have to drop everything and go to school full time to get a degree.
