A Blank Check For War on Iran?

[Mr Khan]

Kasz216 said:

Mr Khan said:

It combines with what PDF said. The uber-Christians who believe this sort of thing have powerful friends in lobbying who make sure that politicians will always back Israel to keep their own jobs (though not completely, since America's been actively working for a two-state solution since Clinton, and that initiative did continue under Bush and through to Obama)

Eh, Even the majority of pro-israel groups believe in a two-state solution.  Including the relgious doomsday ones.   Outside which.  The Doomsday groups don't vote democrat anyway.  So that puts  a mile wide hole in your theory.

That's also a WHOLE lop of generalizing when there are a ton of rational and practical reasons to support Israel.

 

I think a more reasonable explination is simply that Americans are more accepting of self defense arguements.  All the rocket attacks more or less play right into Israel's hands.  Since they're always just "retailaiting" from a recent one.  And there will always be a recent one.

 

Israel can be a little jumpy and skittish with foreign policy sure... which may look weird from the US.   Less weird from a country who  is surrounded by people who deny it's right to exist, and opon whom, citizens legitamitly don't know if rockets will be fired into their lands on any given day.

US polticians support Israel because

A) They like having a steadfast ally that basically will play instigator when it can't.

B) There is literally zero reason to support the Palestinians, the US could put all the pressure on Palestine in the world, and a peace deal would still be 100% impossible, for a couple big reasons.

1) Neither a majority of the Israeli or Palestinian people would accept a split or international Jersualem.

2)   A Venn Diagram of what the Palestinian and Israel people would accept when it comes to borders looks vaguley something liket his.

 

As shown by the fact that the Palestinian Papers had to be denied by the Palestinian goverment, because the mere fact that what they offered was a resignable offense.

 

Palestinians have just been pumped up too much to swallow the very bitter pill of a losing deal they'd have to accept for their country to exist, even if the US were to pressure Israel.

I mean hell, if the US did switch sides... what are the chances Israel agrees to terms Palestine would accept?   Israel is far too important economically to boycott like Iran, or some other country,

and lets be real grim and honest here.  If feeling the pressure, and that the status quo can't stay the same... what are the chances that instead of a deal they just agressivly ethnic cleanse/force palestinians out of Israel/Palestine all together into the neighboring countries?

I think it's adequtly been shown that nobody is really willing to intervene in the case of humanity even when it's a nuetral sitution.

 

Let alone helping to power a government where one of the two poltiical parties is a muslim terrorist group.  Are any EU nations or Russia (Checynians and all) really going to step in at this point?

At the moment, Russian support for Palestine is just an extra chip for the Russians to play.  Which pretty much has been the plight of the Palestinians in general.

There are reasons to support Israel beyond armageddon, I certainly should have clarified, just that i feel that a lot of the kneejerk pro-Israeli reactions you get in the American media comes from the religious Right. On the left, it is because American Jews (almost uniquely outside of the US and Israel itself) tend to veer Left, but are still on Israel's side of things. However, i feel that our tendency to side with Israel to the point of irrationality (like this) is due entirely to vote pandering, which in lart part has to do with the fundies.

One important point that you made is that a lot of "support" for Palestine comes from political expediency rather than genuine concern for the Palestinians, however i disagree with your assessment that the global community would simply stand aside and let Israel ethnically cleanse the whole thing. At varying points since the disaster in Rwanda, *someone* in the international community has always stepped up to prevent mass murder or mass expulsion to some extent (weakest being in Darfur, but even there, the African Union put folks on the ground).

Hell, Jordan would intervene if Israel started pushing all the West Bank people out simply because Jordan's electoral system is almost overwhelmed with Palestinian expats already, and Jordan wouldn't want more of them in country (not that Jordan could do anything against Israel, but it would mean that one of Israel's neighbors would be quite invested in the idea that Israel not simply annex the whole thing and push all the Palestinians out).

Both sides, in the end, will have to stomach a lot of what they don't like, but they'll have to stomach it or continue the current situation, which is untenable. I mean, that's the nature of compromise: find the one solution that everyone hates equally