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By the way for those that did not read what I wrote and are just going based on the responces I did mention that the Arcade/Core is not a good value compared to the Pro/Elite. Would make discussion much better if actually reading the OP :). My main points are:

- Is cheaper if you just want a gaming console

-Should not be used as an excuse by devs since it is not a mandate by MS and the sales are low enough it shouldn't affect sales as much

-It is a nice system for a certain demographic

-I also wanted all 360's to have a hard drive but is not as bad as percieved