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DarthVolod said:
curl-6 said:
DarthVolod said:

I will give the series credit though for at least having a point ... even though it is incredibly stupid and self-contradictory. It goes as follows ...

Bioshock: Objectivism/Egoism is bad

Bioshock 2: Communism/socialism/altruism is bad

Bioshock Infinite: America/jingoism is bad

Basically, any idealogy is, by default, evil. The game's creator ignores the fact that consistant adhereance to this is also an idealogy.

Should just call it Nihilism Infinite.

The point of the Bioshock games (story wise, anyway) isn't "x ideology is inherently evil", but rather that outwardly noble causes can have ugly underbellies, and that the early and mid 20th century (and early 19th) had some particularly ugly ones.

Take the Vox from Infinite for example. They seem noble, standing up for the poor and disenfranchised, yet their leader eventually proves willing to murder children.

It portrays ideologies warts and all instead of glamorising them.


I can sort of agree with what you are saying, but the problem is that each idealogy was just presented as evil and twisted from the outset. We never see Rapture prior to its downfall (will change in Infinite's DLC). We just see a dystopia with no hint as to what drove people to create such a wonderous city in the first place. Andrew Ryan gives a 30 second commerical for his pseudo-Objectivist world view and then he transforms into generic bad guy villain that sends scores of henchman at you ... even Dr. Evil had more character development than this. Same is true of Lamb (or whatever her name was I could not stand her) and ditto for the movers and shakers that built Columbia. They are all just presented as inherently evil and unsympathetic ... we are not seeing just the underbelly of these idealogy, there is nothing but underbelly to them (at least as far as Ken Levine sees it). 

A much better and more balanced approach would have been to make these characters tragic villains rather than mindless zealots of X idealogy. We never get the chance to relate to these people, and we are essentially told that their strong beliefs in X idealogy drove them to become insane (maybe it is slightly different with Comstock I guess but still).

Essentially, the "warts" are all we are seeing of each world view being presented. Virtually no one in the game is sympathetic or relatable aside from the few characters we are outright told to like (little sisters and Elizabeth ... and that's about it). There is nothing outwardly noble about any of these causes (at least as they are presented in the game).We are never presented with characters that really articulate what made them uproot themselves and go to Rapture or Columbia.

The one exception (and easily the best part of the otherwise horrible Bioshock 2) was the character of Charles Porter who had a persuading albeit short audio diary explaining how Andrew Ryan convinced him that Rapture was a place where Porter would not be subject to the racism that was rampant on the surface, and that Rapture was the ideal place for brilliant minds like Porter. All three games needed so much more of this...

I would consider myself to be a proponent of Objectivism (which Ryan's strawman version of Objectivism Levine bashed in Bioshock 1), but even I would admit that the altruist/communist/socialism of Bioshock 2 and the jingoism of Bioshock Infinite also deserved a more balanced approach. As illogical as communism/socialism etc and jingoism is, it still deserves a more balanced examination than it received. Maybe I am expecting too much out of these games though, and of a game developer that refers to themselves as "Irrational" Games. 

I'd argue that though you came to these worlds after the warts had largely overwhelmed their ideologies, the files you recovered hinted at their more noble intentions in their earlier days; for example, the Vox aimed to liberate the poor and disenfranchised, and however badly it turned out in the end, Ryan's dream of unfettered scientific progress certainly took place. As you pointed out, there's Porter, and Comstock's zealotry is explained through his obsessive plunge into christianity as a refuge from the trauma of Wounded Knee.