PS3 games and the lack of 1080p

[rocketpig]

Kyros said:

"It is a sacrifice, whether you want to admit it or not. If given the ability, Polyphony would absolutely run 4xAA @ 1080p"

??? A sacrifice compared to what? Why shouldn't they use 16xAA or resolutions like 2048p? You always have to compare to something else, and compared to 720p 4AA, 1080p 2AA is a clear improvement not a "sacrifice". 

4xAA is used at higher than 1080p resolutions on PC games all the time. Your 2048p comment doesn't make sense because, while resolutions of that size are available on PC monitors, they don't exist in TVs. Whereas 1080p is readily available. If the hardware could do it and no sacrifices needed to be made, why is 1080p on GT5p 2xAA? What would be the reason for cutting the 4xAA out of 720p in the 1080p version?

"Sorry, your argument doesn't make sense. If 1080p is such a small market, why bother making 1080p games in the first place?"

I thought you were trying to convince me that there are almost no 1080p games available? So I do not understand the question. But for example if a game is vertex bound and not pixel bound (has more polygons less shaders) they can make the resolution higher easily without sacrificing anything in 720p. And if they can make 1080p without having problem (for example in less detailled environments like the garage) why shouldn't they do it? I do not get your problems.

You're telling me that hardware is not the limitation, market size for 1080p is. So, why do we have 1080p games at all? And the games that are 1080p, why are they less hardware-intensive than their 600/720p brethren? Smaller environments, less dynamic lighting, etc.

"why are some games not even running at 720p, but instead are upscaled from 600p/620p?"

Because devs apparently decided that this looks better than 720p with less shader operations? What some people do not get is that resolution alone doesn't mean shit.

I understand the resolution is not the be-all, end-all of game design. But, as you said earlier, you get less detail in shaders and such at 1080p than you do at 720p. If the system had more integrated shaders, while the ratio would hold true, the developer would then be allowed to put more detail into 1080p, making any gain from 720p negligible. That's a sacrifice based on hardware. It's also a design decision by many devs, but the two are not mutually exclusive. 

In the end its easy, if you look at God of War2 and see the improvements to First-year PS2 titles you see that there is plenty of room for graphical improvement. In one or two years when developers are really comfortable with the PS3(and 360) and people will have more 1080p TVs we will also see more games supporting 1080p. I think thats a safe prognosis.

Absolutely. I agree that, as developers know the systems better, we will see more 1080p games. But... Doesn't that go right back to the entire "hardware limitation" argument in the first place again? As developers learn to tweak the system more, 1080p will appear more frequently because they learn how to better get around the system limitations. I don't think the 1080p television market has anything to do with it and your argument is contradictory at points. You admit that visual sacrifices/design choices (shaders) have to be made at 1080p and that true 1080p is currently reserved for less epic games. But then you state that developers only program for 720p because the 1080p market is too small. It doesn't make sense. Either choices are being made based on the ability of the hardware or they are not.