G911turbo brings up a VERY important point again that I raised in my original post in this thread. Both the PS4 and 720 are going to struggle to sell worse than the Wii U has done during the launch window due to much higher price points.
The latest rumour, which sounds credible, is that the 720 is going to have 2 SKUs - one priced at $299.99 with a 2 year subscription commitment to Live Gold for $15 per month so you're looking at $660 in total and the second SKU being $499.99 without the Live Gold commitment so you'll need to add the Live Gold subscription, which you should be able to pick up much cheaper.
Then you've got Sony continuing to ignore what made the PS2 so successful and what's made the PS3, PSP and Vita less successful. They've gone for an expensive and powerful box again - a console with 8GB of GDDR5 and a GPU pushing 1.8TFlops isn't going to be cheap before you even start to think about the controller and dual cameras in the camera bar. We'll probably be looking at $499.99 for the PS4 too.
And if that wasn't enough to cause them both problems given the current financial climate, both consoles are going to be supply constrained even if they do sell.
And then you've got the possibility of the rumours of always online and no used games for the 720 being true which I know, going by the reactions on various other forums I frequent, is going to be a dealbreaker for a fair few people.
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