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Slimebeast on 24 April 2013
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Scoobes said:
Slimebeast said:
dsgrue3 said:
Slimebeast said:

You're talking against facts here because you hope that to be the case, while we in fact don't know that to be the case.

I personally, partially based on my experience as a medical doctor and because there are studies that suggest it, believe that homosexuality largely is caused by dysfunctional hormonal regulation during embryonal development, which would be enough to meet the criteria for it to be classified as a "brain disorder" (that's how diagnostics work).

I do believe that some homosexuality is programmed and even selected for at the genetical level too, but we don't have clear evidence for that yet.

Note that I don't think this is dramatic in any way because "disorder" doesn't automatically mean something can be or should be "cured".

 

I'm not "talking against facts," I'm bringing them to the table. This is where scientists believe the fundamental control occurs. 

Epigenetics and hormones go hand in hand and it is absolutely thought to be hormones sent as epigenetic signals during development that produces sexuality. Epigenetics aren't set in stone, they are environmentally impacted. 

Classifying homosexuality as a brain disorder is absurd. Call it a recessive disposition, but disorder in this sense is a pejorative. Like I said, it's not thought of as different to left-handedness - and I think you'll fail to classify this as a disorder. 

Furthermore, what the hell does "hope" have anything to do with anything? I'm not homosexual, so I've no vested interest in a scientific explanation. I'm bringing clarity to an outdated opinion that it's a brain disorder. It simply isn't; any other assertion is baseless and, quite frankly, ridiculous.

 

You claimed that homosexuality "is controlled by epigenetic markers which promote a predisposition". That is not fact, that's a theory. Some homosexuality seem to be controlled by genetic markers, while some homosexuality cannot yet be connected to any predisposition, that's all we can say.

He says epigenetic markers which potentially supports your original hypothesis about hormonal changes in the mother during embryonic development influencing homosexuality. Hormonal changes in the mother could potentially influence the transcription of non-coding regulatory RNA in the developing embryo. This in turn could influence DNA methylation and effect gene regulation in the baby.

I'm not getting into the brain stuff between you two as I've not read up enough on the topic but you're potentially arguing over a shared viewpoint.

Yes, I know the implications of his argument - namely that genetic markers in combination with epigenetic factors could cause the hormonal changes needed to produce an altered sexuality in the brain (through the mechanisms you explained). I'm not against that theory at all. It most likely explains a large part of homosexuality prevalence.

But he makes a big deal out of the markers only (because they're genetically tied and therefore could suggest that homosexuality is an evolutionary selected trait), and ignores the possibility that there are cases where no genetic predisposition is needed. Just a hormonal imbalance during embryonal development resulting in a homosexual brain, just like other common embryological disturbances that aren't linked to any genetical predisposition.

No matter what he says, the facts are that:

1. we know hormonal imbalances during embryonal development can alter a person's sexuality

2. we've discovered genetic markers that are shared between some groups of homosexuals (only male homosexuals as far as I know, and not by all of them).

Those are the facts. But that doesn't mean these two things are connected, and it certainly doesn't mean that they're always connected like he claims. To go beyond those facts and connect them is just speculation, which I was very clear about.

He also is very dogmatic about the definition of "disorder".

He lastly put forward another factor, whether the brain is the chicken or the egg, but when it comes to this topic, and disorders in general, that's irrelevant.