ToraTiger said:
Slimebeast said:
ToraTiger said:
Slimebeast said:
Unlike many other religions it is built into islam to conquer the world and submit the unbelievers. I think that is key here.
The muslims tried to conquer Europe as early as in the 8th century until the Franks stopped them. To constantly blame Western world atrocities as a cause for muslim aggression is naive and an expression of self-hate.
What should be done?
Try to stay out the Middle East to not aggravate islamists more than necessary. But I think it was right to invade Afghanistan after 9/11 to stop Al-Qaeda and it's certainly right that the US defends and supports Israel.
Stop funding Saudi-Arabia, Egypt and whatnot.
Restrict immigration from islamic countries to the West. Do not let muslims build mosques with tall minarets or call to prayer in Europe, and don't give them special rights that threaten the democratic prinicples of the West.
Try to decrease oil dependancy of OPEC.
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Not true at all. There's nothing in the Islam holy book that states to kill or provoke non-beilevers in any way.
Now you don't say anything about how the Christians tried to do the same thing, but that behaviour isn't the way of the Bible, either. It's the indiviuals that caused that, not the religion. To think that is ludacris. If they really wanted to conquer the World, don't you think they would have tried that by now? And can you please clarify why do you think they want to kill everyone else who isn't Muslim?
It's not naive to think it's the West's fault, because it probably is. We've been involved in so many wars in the middle east over the course of the last three decades, it's ridiculous. It might be for oil.
Actually, I think the terrorist attacks on the US is a direct result of the hate that some Muslims have for this country because of their actions in the middle east.
And as for you saying something about Israel, I don't see how you can side with a country that was formed from the lands Muslims have lived in for centuries and they form it without their consent or approval. If the people who did 9/11 are terrorist, than the biggest terrorist is the United states of America and it's foreign policies.
Honestly, if you are going to make such a blatant claim, at least know what you're talking about first. It makes you sound like a child.
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I think you are just taking the chance without actually knowing, hoping that your claims about the Koran and muslim world-view are correct. They aren't.
Islam aims to submit both the individual and society under it. That's why it is a religious and political ideology (unlike christianity). The Koran is very clear about this and the works of Muhammad himself testify about it by being a military commander who conquered the whole Arabic peninsula, and his followers who conquered and submitted the whole Middle-East within the next 30 years. And within a century, muslims had already conquered Spain and tried to conquer Europe before the Franks stopped them. So they already did try to take over the world. Right from the beginning.
I never said or implied that muslims "want to kill everyone else who isn't Muslim". That's ridiculous. But islam aims to submit everybody under its rule, under islamic governance. You don't have to kill to do that.
The actions of the West do have some impact on muslim behaviour like I already stated, but it annoys me to see this blatant naivity (about islam and the islamic world) and self-hate (always blame the West).
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Firstly, it's the "Qur'an". And how can you tell me what Islam aims to do, when I'm postitive you never even read their holy book. Ask any Muslim, nothing in the Qur'an demands that Muslims engage in the Islamization of the World by means of violence or other means.
"Islam aims to submit both the individual and society under it. " <---Not true in the slightest. In a passage of the Qur'an it states, "Thou shall not force Islam upon peers or family". So I think that right there debunks that. Don't make such blatant claims about Religion, unless you're actually knowledgable in that field.
The only reason Islam is an policital-ideology is because people in the middle east have been following the Qur'an for so many centuries, that it would only make sense to base the policies on their Religion.
I think it's fair to blaim the west. What terrorist attacks have the Islamic world commited before we begun starting wars left and right with them? This is common sense. It's not self-hate, we aren't hating ourselves, we're simply just blaiming our goverment which is probably 99% responsible.
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It is also "Koran" in English.
Why do you say "ask any muslim" when several deeply devoted muslims would say it's clear that muslims, even all muslims, are called to bring the world under islam?
Yes, the Koran is a very confusing book which contradicts itself in many many occasions. You quoted one peaceful passage, I can quote several others who counter your passage.
"The only reason islam is a political ideology" is not just because the ME has been under a continious dominance by islam (btw, christianity in the West has too, even longer than islam anywhere in the world), it is also because the Koran explicitly states it, unlike other world religions like bhuddism and christianity who are of personal and religious nature and not societal or political.
"Our government is 99% responsible" for muslim terror attacks in the West, wow, I'll let that speak for itself.
