Margaret Thatcher RIP.

[kennyrester]

Squint_Eastwood said:

kennyrester said:

Squint_Eastwood said:

 

Sorry to quote this entire thing but I'm on my mobile and can't select individual bit

The2real4myfol said; "Northern Ireland- she pretty much acted like the British Empire did there. She had the army repress the people there which caused widespread violence. It's no wonder the IRA tried to blow her up in Brighton in 1984 Since, Labour devolved power to Northern Ireland in 1999, there has been much more peace." 

Now I'm fromNorthern Ireland. I don't know whether your comments were made in haste orignorance but I'm thinking a bit of both. Look up the Easter rising of 1916. Thatcher wasn't there. Or try the rebellion of 1798. Again, no Thatcher. Numerous other rebellions have occurred but alas, no evil Thatcher. Bloody Sunday (1972) is something else that gets placed at Thatchers door by the... Lets call them youth of today. It always gives me pleasure to inform them how she wasn't în power until almost a decadè later.

The IRA despised Thatcher because she said "NOd still she refused to budge, even when they threatened her life. She signed the Anglo Irish agreement in 1985, which she later admitted regretting as it caused more problems, but it was the only concession she offered.  Your claims that Labour brought peace to Northern Ireland is laughable.  In 1996 the IRA blew up the Conary Wharf, breaking another ceasefire and hoping to strongarm the British government. Luckily for the IRA, Labour were coming to power in 1997. They formed the Good Friday Agreement which oversaw the release of hundreds of prisoners convicted of paramilitary involvement as a goodwill gesture as well as enabling known IRA terrorists to take seats of power at Stormount Assembly. Gerry Adams is believed to have been activly involved in numerous bombings and has seen the inside of a prison cell. Martin McGuiness, Deputy Minister now, widely acknowlegded as the main man in Londonderry in the 70's. Alex Maskey, another porridge lover whos seen the inside of more prison cells than the average prison warden. Is this the devolved pwer you referred to by Labour? Also, remember the Masserrene Barracks incident that involved the death of British soldiers in 2009? There is still trouble here today, is that the fault of Thatcher? Your Labour goverment didnt have the stomach for a fight with the IRA. They gave more in a heartbeat than Thatcher.

The Falklands, she defended our territory as the people living wanted despite no backing up from Reagan or any non-communist european leaders. It's a shame, Argentina would just forget about it already. It was never theirs.

So, in complete contradiction of yourself, you agree she should have defended the Falklands because "the people living there wanted it." So did the people of Nortern Ireland. And Thatcher fought for it. I don't understand why you think there's a difference. 

Edit; I have been a bit disprespectful to Margaret Thatcher in my post. I meant to say "Lady Thatcher".

There may still be trouble in NI but far less than under Thatcher. Things have steadily improved since the Good Friday agreement. You seem to be disgusted by the fact that Labour "gave" more than Thatcher but the fact is fewer people are dying now. Is that not worth more than principles? Would "a fight with the IRA", as you put it have brought the same relative level of peace? Doubtful.

 

Your comparison between The Falklands and NI is ridiculous. In the Falklands 99% of the population want to remain British citizens. Not so in NI. They're totally, totally different situations and it's not contardictory in the slightest to admire her actions in one and not the other.

 

Finally, I don't really understand your first paragraph listing various historical events. The post you quoted didn't lay the blame for everything the British empire did in Ireland at Thatcher's door, just what happened under her.

Yes fewer people are dying which i am glad of. Nobody needs to die because of cultural differences. And to not give in to the IRA would have been bloody and disasterous. Concessions had to be made but the Good Friday Agreement was a disgraceful piece of legislation that allowed terrorists to stand for parliament. Released prisionere who should still be rotting. So your saying that terrorism should be the way forward? Lay down your arms and move to politics instead? Tell me what your thoughts are of an IRA memorial statue being erected in Crossmaglen of bombmaker Sean O'Callahan? Attended by Sinn fein representitives who campaigned to have it payed for by British taxpayers money to the cost of £30,000. But in the same breath they call for British soldier memorials to be taken down because they are antagonistic. Or the calls for the renaming of the Royal Victoria Hospital? Yes, Good Friday brought its peace by putting the terrorists in power. And its a fragile peace at that. 

A majority of Northern Ireland also wish to remain part of the UK. Its not 99% but its a majority. Hardly a ridiculous comparision of fighting for British land. 

My point about historical events is explained when you take the original posters words into context. Claims that she acted like the British Empire and opressed the people throigh the Army were not true. Yes it has happened before but it wasnt under her. That was my whole point. 

Look, I hate Gerry Adams and I hate Sinn Féin, I really do. The inflammatory gestures you list are awful and characteristic of their petty, small-minded apporach to politics (although kind of irrelevant to the discussion, no?). But is it not better that Adams, McGuinness and their cronies lead their followers away from violence? Like it or not (and I don't) they were the only people that could do so. Their being elected is a crucial stepping stone away from violence and towards politics. Had that not happened you'd have politicians with much less public support and these former IRA men still operating outside of politics. It was of vital importance that the devolved government have as much public support as possible and to be seen as legitimate by as many as possible. I know it's unsavoury to have them in power but the hope is that when they're gone they'll be replaced by people with no such violent history. As you say, peace was bought by putting terrorists in power. That sucks but, given the alternatives, it's well worth it.

 

As for the Falklands comparison, the reason I said it was ridiculous was because you seemed to think it was somehow contradictory to admire Thatcher's actions there but condemn her actions in NI which it very obviously isn't.