Nintendo's down, but not out.

[DanneSandin]

Mazty said:

DanneSandin said:

Mazty said:

I said SSBB wasn't a system seller. How am I being biased saying that a handful of games won't sell a system? When have they ever? 

The PS3 isn't a failure just yet. If bluray + profit results in net profit, then it can't be a failure financially. You just want to look at sales with a very, very basic understanding and say "it hasn't made money therefore it's a failure!" It's a lot more complex than that. 

By and large, you're the only one claiming SSBB not being a system seller... All I ever see you say about Nintendo is negative things, so that kinda makes me think you are indeed bias.

Let's take a look at what PS3 succeeded with, and what it failed at, shall we?

Bluray hasn't become the standard format. Yet. Failure/Success? Pending; You say blurays will overtake DVD as leading format in 2015, and while this might be true, the digital format might be the most common format then.

The use and development of Cell. F/S? Failure; Cell cost Sony a shit ton of money developing it and in the end lead to the xbox becoming the leading platform for developers, AND Sony abandoned the cell when making the PS4, so there wasn't any technical gains made and nothing that carried on to next gen.

Market share increase/decrease. F/S? Failure: Sony lost market share, allowing Nintendo and MS to outsell the PS3 and ending up in the 3rd place.

Financial gains? F/S? Failure: Overall the PS3 has lost Sony more money than it has gain, or at the very best has made a very (VERY) modest profit, but not enough to deem it a success.

So, looking at these facts it's VERY clear that the PS3 wasn't a stunning success. Maybe, and just maybe, it could be considered a MODEST success - but that's really stretching it. Sony IS the big loser this gen.

Yes because THE FIGURES SHOW IT ONLY SELLS AT MOST 1 MILLION UNITS. And that was for a much more popular console! As I said, looking at it, no game really sells a system - multiple games combined sell systems. 

Bluray is a successful format. Are you really going to tell me 350 million blurays sold in 2010 alone is somehow a "failure"?  No. Your understanding of buisness and tech is terrible. Something doesn't have to "beat the other one" to be successful. HD-DVD wasn't successful. Bluray is because it is THE HD format and is shifting very respectable amounts. Again your failing here I think comes down to a lack of buisness understanding on your side. Is anyone going to say the Wii was a failure because it didn't beat the PS2? No, so please, stop saying this as it's a misunderstanding of buisness from yourself.

Yes the cell was a failure - it didn't take off. One mistake doesn't make a whole product a failure though. Who has said the iphone 4 was a failure due to the antenna posistion? No one. 

Losing market share =/= failure. Still retaining a third of the market is pretty good, especially when released a year after the competition at a much higher price. 

Financial gains so far has been  a failure BUT does the game division include bluray sales as I'm guessing you didn't know that Sony own one of the only bluray disc foundrys in the world. This is again a failing to understand buisness on your behalf - please research gross and net profit. 

Your entire argument is simply wrong, it's a black and white fallacy - you think loss = failure which is far, far from the truth.

Sony is the biggest loser this gen and yet has almost outsold the xbox 360 after having been released a year later, at a higher price and has helped Sony secure the HD format....You've never studied business have you?

Ultimately if you think kicking out more of the same franchise titles will save the Wii U, ask why didn't it save the GC? Or N64? What makes these games so much more different from the Nintendo-franchise-orientated consoles of the past that all sold not particuarly well?

I think this is actually the first point you've made I can agree on: "no game really sells a system - multiple games combined sell systems." Very, VERY few games can sell a system by themselves - but SSB is that sort of game that makes you pick up the console if you have one or two other games you want to play as well.

Bluray isn't a total failure because it didn't achieve market dominance, just like X360 or PS3 wasn't total failures just because they didn't win. And therefore we can't consider Wii U a failure if it ends up selling only 20m consoles; if it makes Nintendo money and makes them stay in business it has been a relative success, and not a total failure - something you have tried to make it out to be this entire thread, no?

Sony as a whole company is a failure for the last couple of years since they're losing shit ton of money every year - and I'm not just talking about their gaming division (which has been able to make some profit, but still has lost more in the long run that its made).

All of this just shows how biased you are. Sony is losing money, is in 3rd place, lost market share etc, and Wii U (and Nintendo) is a failure just because Wii U isn't selling too well right now? Biased.

And you really seem to not understand that it was Nintendo's franchises that saved them in the N64 and GC days. And the same franchises will save them this time around. You have just stated that you don't have to dominate a market to be considered successful, which means that GC was successful in the sense that it allowed Nintendo to hang in there and make a strong come back. Can Sony or MS rely on their franchises to save them like Nintendo's games have saved them? No. MSony are too reliant on 3rd party support.

Biased.