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Kasz216 on 16 March 2013
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Zappykins said:
richardhutnik said:
Zappykins said:

Actually, all of them.  Forms of birth control have documented to nearly 2,000 years in ancient Egypt long *before* Christ.  So, much longer than the Roman Catholic Church has even been around. Granted they weren't as successful as the ones today. They had both barrier methods, spermicidal methods, and herbal (medical) methods.  And even herbal abortions.

 It was the Plague that cause the reversal.  In some places over 70% of the population died off within a short time. It must have been terrifying.  Some leaders predicted that their wouldn’t be enough people left to perform different jobs, grow food, and have society survive.  So they said it was a duty to have children to stop the collapse of society. (But that was several billion humans ago.)  I think it was porbably the right thing.

 

They still support some forms of birth control today, such as 'the rhythm method,' having the woman take her temperature every day, etc.  They just aren't as effective as The Pill or Condoms. 

Go show evidence anywhere that the Catholic Church supported any form of birth control besides the natural planning method.  Post some article or anything here to support that view.  Without this, it is just speculation.  I was able to at least find something badgenome posted regarding prostitution and a degree of tolerance, but nothing on birth control.  All I found was that Catholic appologist site post on the subject.

Oh, gosh, you sound skeptical.  Well, let's start at nearly the begining with Gratian, who was head of Rome Emperor and head of the church 375-383.  He said, "He is not a murderer who brings about abortion before the soul is in the body."

Even after "The Black Death" some abortion was evel allowed:

Pope Gregory XIII (1572-85) said, "It was not homicide to kill an embryo of less than forty days since it was not human.  Even after forty days, though it was homicide, it was not as serious as killing a person already born, since it was not done in hatred or revenge."

 


Again... he was looking for actual sourced matieral.


As for Pope Gregory.  He saw it as less of a sin... but gettin gan abortion wast still a Huge sin and he was still anti-abortion.  You wouldn't be excomunicated but the catholic church in no way condoned abortion under him.

 

http://embryo.asu.edu/view/embryo:127770

which partially explains why he wants sources.  As people often will just take certain parts of quotes or frame things so so they are they way they want them.

 

As another example... The Gratian comment exists, and is in regards to some fetus vs other fetus but as far as i can tell WHEN this happens was never actually mentioned and never codified into Catholic law.

Outside which suggesting, saying an unformed fetus isn't murder means the catholic church used to support abortion is like claiming the Catholic Church supports robbery.   I mean, a pope would say robbery isn't equal to murder too right?

http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=3361

From every source I found.... abortion ranged from "MURDER! to very bad sin" throught the entirity of Chrstian thought.  Let alone Catholic Church Doctrine.  Never something approved... and at best, just something that wouldn't get your soul automatically damned forever... instead just probably damning it.

 

Nor can I find any actual hisotircal evidence suggesting the Catholic Church ever supported birth control... and quite the opposite, plenty of condemnations of birth control BEFORE the Black Plague.

For example   (No way i can find to shrink the text.....)

"Why do you sow where the field is eager to destroy the fruit, where there are medicines of sterility [oral contraceptives], where there is murder before birth? You do not even let a harlot remain only a harlot, but you make her a murderess as well…Indeed, it is something worse than murder, and I do not know what to call it; for she does not kill what is formed but prevents its formation. What then? Do you condemn the gift of God and fight with his [natural] laws?…Yet such turpitude…the matter still seems indifferent to many men—even to many men having wives. In this indifference of the married men there is greater evil filth; for then poisons are prepared, not against the womb of a prostitute, but against your injured wife. Against her are these innumerable tricks." 

- St. John Chrysostom Homilies on Romans, 24 (ca. A.D. 391).

http://www.taylormarshall.com/2007/09/st-john-chrysostom-on-evils-of.html

I'd guess you likely got tricked.